Of Swords and Soulmates

From Mary Shelley To Del Toro: A Monster, A Maker, And The Cost Of Creation

• Mari • Season 2 • Episode 48

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A stitched body, a bruised heart, and a question that won’t let go: who bears the burden for what we make? We dive into Guillermo del Toro’s Frankenstein and trace its roots from Mary Shelley’s storm-lit summer to a modern, war-shadowed tale about creation, responsibility, and the cost of love. This isn’t just another gothic retelling—it’s a story about breaking cycles, where forgiveness is the bravest experiment in the lab.

We start with the news that’s lighting up romantasy—cover reveals, special editions, and why “trend readers vs genre readers” is shaping online discourse more than craft. Then we jump into the film’s craft: Oscar Isaac as a preening, brilliant Victor; Jacob Elordi as a towering, soulful Creature who learns love the way many of us do—from stories and the rare person who is kind; and Mia Goth’s striking dual roles that knit grief, desire, and projection into Victor’s unraveling. We talk color symbolism and costume design as character psychology, from blood-red guilt to nature-drenched greens and x-ray-stitched gowns. Practical effects and built sets keep the world tactile: a ship that creaks, a laboratory that feels engineered by obsession, and camera moves that play like a rock concert.

The adaptation choices matter. Setting the tale against the Crimean War reframes Victor’s ambition as morally funded by violence, while the “brain bargain” with an arms dealer sharpens the ethics of creation. Del Toro’s ending—asking for forgiveness instead of doubling down on punishment—will spark debate among purists, but it lands with emotional clarity. We wrestle with whether this is a kissing story, and arrive at something richer: a romance of care, where monstrosity looks less like stitched skin and more like the refusal to take responsibility for what you bring into the world.

If you love romantasy, gothic cinema, adaptation theory, or just want to argue about whether color motifs can break your heart, you’ll feel right at home. Hit play, then tell us your hottest Frankenstein take, share the episode with a friend, and tap follow so you never miss what we resurrect next. 

Links from the News Segment and Show:

  • Kimberly Lemming did a cover reveal for her latest novel - I Punched An Alien And Now We’re In Couples Therapy 
  • LitJoy Crate is doing a special edition of Gail Carson Levine’s The Two Princesses of Bamarre
  • Cover revealed for The Wrath Gods Reap by Abigail 
  • Cover revealed for Loched in Love by Jacklyn Hyde
  • Gregory Maguire, author of Wicked is releasing a prequel Galinda novel
  • Time released their 100 must read books of 2025  
  • Threads discussion on What’s Going on in Romantasy

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Ashley:

Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants. The hosts make no claim to be literary experts, and their opinions are exactly that. Opinions. All creative works discussed or refused are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and is being used under the fair use doctrine.

Mari:

Let us be monsters together. Hello, and welcome to Up Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch, and discuss romanticy stories. I'm one of your hosts, Mari, and with me I have Kelly.

Kelly:

Hey everyone, it's Kelly. We also have Ashley.

Ashley:

Hi guys, it's Ashley. We also have Jonathan.

Jonathan:

What's good, everybody? It's JP. I'm super thankful and grateful to be here with you guys.

Mari:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

Most wonderful time of the year.

Mari:

It's post-Thanksgiving, gearing up for the winter festivities. Krampus knocked. I'm sure that's what you're talking about. Your most favorite, favorite winter monster, right?

Jonathan:

I did. I'm not gonna lie. I did, I'll text you a picture. I did craft a Krampus party hat.

Mari:

Hey. But we are not talking Krampus. Today we're gonna be discussing Guillermo de Toro's Frankenstein movie based on the book Frankenstein or the Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelley. But first, as always, some news. Um, we've got some, not quite as much, I don't think, as normal, but we'll see. Kimberly Lemming, who we love, did a cover reveal for her latest novel. It's called I Punched an Alien and Now We're in Couples Therapy. Um, we read for the podcast, we read the first of her Mead Mishaps books, if you guys remember vividly.

Jonathan:

I do wish I hope to meet her.

Mari:

That would be amazing. I haven't I haven't seen her do a lot of traveling anywhere near our area, but that would be great. This book is set to ship out September of next year, September 18th, 2026, 19 bucks. The cover is very reminiscent of all her covers, especially like this is the second one in that sci-fi alien zaniness kind of series that she has. That's different from her Mead Mishap series, also zany. I'm looking forward to that. I basically it is if she writes it, I will read it. We need more Kimberly Lemming.

Jonathan:

Absolutely, 1000%.

Mari:

I also have that Litjoy Crate is doing a special edition of Gail Carson Levine's The Two Princesses of Bamar. This is she's the author of Ella Enchanted. I actually have not read this book, but it's 100% in the same style, like visually and size-wise and everything as the Ella Enchanted special edition that they did. It's hand signed by the author, it's $29.99, and it's ready to ship. It's like, you know, you you you buy it, you get it now. I'm a kind of good looking book, too. It is. Ella Enchanted was really pretty. I think it was one of the prettiest books I got last year. So I was like Was it a good read? I don't know yet. I just got it.

Jonathan:

Oh, oh sorry, I'm sorry, I thought you got it.

Mari:

I've never read it, and I honestly probably won't read it until like January. So it's gotten to the time of year where I pretty much focus solely on holiday reads. So it's it's gotta be something really I have to be really in the mood for something different for it to pull me out of that. I'm pretty much set on like holiday reads at this point, winter holiday reads. We also have another cover reveal. This is for The Wrath Gods Reap by Abigail Owens, which is the conclusion of the Chris Crucible trilogy. So we read the first one for the podcast, the second one came out this year, third one is coming out November 17th, 2026. $29.99 right now for the hardcover. The cover is designed by LJ Anderson. Um, it's really pretty. It's got like the sprayed edges and all that fun stuff if you pre-order. We have yet another cover reveal. This is by Jaclyn Hyde. It's for book four of her Monster Bay series. Bay B-A-E. This one is called Locked in Love. It releases February 25th, 2026. So the first one of this is a vampire, and the audiobook has a Romanian accent, so it is straight up Dracula. Like every stereotype of Dracula you can think of as the main male character vampire character. The second book is a werewolf who also has like an accent. The third one doesn't have an audiobook out yet. It's the Frankenstein character, but he's described as having like a British accent. And so this one is Scottish. So I'm loving how every one of the every one of the books has different accent and like a vibe to it.

Jonathan:

So is this a is this a this is a more curvy girl style book? I'm assuming I'm looking at it.

Mari:

Uh Locked in Love looks like it from the cover. I don't know. I don't know anything about the the plot other than I don't think it's a spoiler when you have an aquatic looking manned creature and it's called Locked in Love. I'm I'm assuming he's a Loch Ness monster, but I I I don't know anything beyond that.

Jonathan:

So he did a lot of sit-ups. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight abs. All the abs.

Mari:

I guess, you know, with immortality, you have lots of time uh for all the sit-ups.

Jonathan:

Yeah, I just have the one ab. I have two. If I bent over and have my shoes, then I have two abs. But I'm not sure my abs are supposed to touch.

Mari:

My abs are there. They're very well insulated.

Jonathan:

We're built for winter.

Mari:

Yes. Very insulated. Sorry, that took a second.

unknown:

Sorry.

Mari:

I was not ready for that joke. But I I really like the these are, I believe, all the books that Jaclyn Hyde has written, but I really like the writing style. It's rom-commie. They're not like particularly super serious. They're not like they have a full-fledged story. The characters seem very fully fleshed out. They all kind of you have some overlap where like some of the other characters are mentioned in the further books. Yeah, I I've enjoyed reading this series a good bit. She will be at Maseretica BookCon in May. And I'm looking forward to to meeting her. All right. Next bit of news we have is that Gregory McGuire, author of Wicked, that we talked about last episode and the whole Wicked series, is releasing an another prequel. So there's one prequel that's called Elfie. That's the story of Alphabet as a as a child. This seek this prequel that's coming out is called Gelinda, and it's Gelinda's storyline. It's coming out in fall of 2026.

Jonathan:

Looking forward to that too.

Mari:

Yeah, I still have not read Elfie. So I'm I'm needing to work my way up through them.

Jonathan:

Yeah, I just that's gonna be next on my list. For that's probably one of the first books I'll read in 2026. But I think that's a good thing. Also a pretty book, by the way.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

It is a delightfully Elfie, I mean. Yeah. I did I did was able to snag that one this weekend.

Mari:

Yeah, so I need to I need to get through those all in good time. So many books. Not enough time. Speaking of, Time magazine released their 100 must-read books of 2025. I will say, from what I could tell of the fiction ones, because they're cat, yeah, they haven't you can separate them out by fiction and non-fiction. Of the fiction ones, there's only one that I thought might be that that's romancy that I could tell. And that's Catabasis, Carabasis. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that's the which I have. I have the book. I just haven't read it. Also a pretty book. Yeah, also a very pretty book. And I like the author. I've read other things by her, but I've not read that one. So most of the rest of the fiction books that I just kind of sampled through to kind of get a vibe for them, a lot of them I had never heard of. I think two or three I had DNF'd, but a lot of them were like very, I don't know what the word is. Fiction only in the most speculative of sense, where it's like very could be a true story. There was a lot of death and cancer and family members with cancer and that kind of stuff. And I'm just like a lot of depressing sounding books, to be honest. Yeah, but I think that I I don't think I've read any of them. I don't think I've finished any of the ones that are in that 100 must-read books of 2025. Any stand out to you guys?

Jonathan:

No, not to me.

Ashley:

I'm not gonna lie, I didn't do my homework and I didn't see the list. I suck.

Mari:

Um no, I sent it out just before we we started recording. It is not you, it is me. I suck.

Ashley:

Take a gander really quickly. I don't even recognize any of these titles. I know. Questioning who who made this list. Yeah, yeah. This isn't even a Goodreads list. No. I'd like to know more about Sky Daddy, but that's about it. I'm not impressed with this list.

Mari:

Yeah, yeah. That's kind of my that was kind of my thought on it. I went through it and I'm just like, oh, okay, that's fine. But anyways, it exists, it's a thing. The last little thing I have isn't really news, more I guess kind of news, a little bit discussion thing. So Sarah from Hissin and Kissing sent me the a link to this. Um, and I thought it was interesting. It's a it's a threads post by Aya Winter, who's an author, and it's called What's Actually Going On in Romancy Right Now? In parentheses, a calm, grounded take, not rage bait, not a clap back, just clarity. And she basically goes on to say that a lot of the chaos happening in romancy right now, quote, isn't about the books. It's about trend readership versus genre readership. And those are not the same things. She says that like Avatar and Fourth Wing created a wave, not a genre, and that these books brought new readers into fantasy, which is good, but that their gateway series, not genre blueprints, those are her words. And she's this is her what she was saying is that quote, when readers only engage with the viral wave and not the broader genre, they naturally expect the same pacing, the same romance to plot structure, the same character archetypes, the same emotional beats, the same special girl and brooding guy dynamic, the same digestival world building. So when a book doesn't follow that formula, it gets labeled as bad writing, problematic, slow, etc. It's not a critique, it's algorithm-shaped expectation. She says online discourse is being driven by content cycles, not craft. And basically that when writers try to write to that, you get what's he said, quote, if every writer followed these quote rules, we'd end up with the same beige algorithm-approved book over and over again. The friction is between trend readers and genre readers, not between readers and writers. And the different expectations that trend readers versus genre readers want, that neither group is wrong, and that they encourage different things. But basically that we all need to be more encouraging of different types of books in our genre, um, rather than labeling something as bad just because it's not what we expect of the one book that's popular or the one book that we like best in that genre. I thought it was an interesting point, interesting discussion.

Ashley:

My initial feeling on hearing you speak of this topic was that of this particular writer got a bad review or has a friend that did and felt some type of way about it. I mean, art is subjective, right? And I think there are some books that just have tones that we like and tones that we don't. And you we just so we just went to the book con, right, just a couple months ago, and we found that very lovely vendor with the very lovely jewelry, and she very highly recommended this one book. Remember, she like actively downloaded it on our phones for us. I couldn't, and she raved about it. It was like like it was throne of glass, right? Like like high tier. I couldn't get through three chapters.

Mari:

No, me either.

Ashley:

So I mean, it's not that the book was bad, it just it wasn't for us. And so I think maybe having a conversation with some of these readers who can be very protective of the things that they love, right? Very opinionated, very, very strongly passionate about things that sometimes they react very poorly to if they venture beyond that author.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Ashley:

But I don't, yeah, I don't, I think it's more about educating for the people who are a little overzealous than it is about us broadening her our horizons. I think the true I think the readers are doing that. And I think I think it's because of social media like TikTok and Instagram where I've been able to broaden my horizons and venture into new authors and different series so that I'm not just going down this one path of Fourth Wing and Sarah J. Mass.

Mari:

Yeah.

Ashley:

So I don't know. I think that article to me is rubbing me slightly wrong because it's it's going towards one very particular narrative. I think the people who are very passionate about the reading that they're doing are exploring other avenues and opening up their minds to other authors.

Mari:

Yeah, I mean, I think it's I think the way I took it is that it I took it from the viewpoint of like how you talk about how how we should talk about books that maybe we don't a hundred percent like. You know, like the whole idea of like maybe a book isn't for us, that doesn't mean it's automatically a bad book. And I don't think any of us does that. I don't think any of us is like, oh, this is a bad book just because I didn't like it, you know. But there are people who are that way in all genres, not just romanticity, let me say that, and not just readers, movie critics, you know, fans, etc. That just because something isn't for you, or it's not maybe the the thing that you may be craving or liking at this point in your life doesn't make it automatically bad. You know, that you you ought to be able to critique a thing or talk about a thing without just labeling it bad or good, you know?

Ashley:

I also feel like that can translate into a lot of things.

Mari:

Yeah, I agree. Currently. I agree. Not just books, not just books. Yeah. Yes, 100%. I agree. Like one of the like this was like an eight-part post on threads, but one of the parts she said was, quote, romanticy is not one monolith, fantasy is not one monolith, romance is not one monolith. You're allowed to dislike a story. You're not obligated to declare it morally bankrupt, badly written, or fandom taboo just because it didn't hit the trend reader formula. Reading widely is how you learn what you love. End quote.

Jonathan:

It's interesting. So is she or is this person upset that that readers, I guess, are that there's now like this mainstream romancy vibe?

Mari:

I don't I don't think the person is upset. It didn't come across as a like an emotionally charged post. I think they were like analyzing what's happening in the romancy genre right now, because the romancey genre is a very popular, very financially viable genre right now. It's exploding out, you know, which is great. This is how we get more authors, this is how we get more ideas, more you know, sub-genres and all that. And so I think it was just her analysis of what's happening. I don't think she I don't feel like she was angry about any one thing. I thought I I felt like it was just like an analysis of what's going on. Interesting.

Jonathan:

The yeah, I mean, to each to each zone, we all we all like odd, odd things. Um I think even in this, like even in the same podcast, like like my what I engage with more is uh is significantly different than what you engage with most often.

Mari:

Yeah, which is different than what Kelly likes and which is different than what Ash likes.

Jonathan:

So Yeah.

Mari:

Which is it is fine. Like we should all be able to like what we like and it be okay.

Jonathan:

Are people choosing sides? Are people getting upset? Like, no, no, no. I don't think so.

Mari:

I like I don't think this is a I don't think this was like a hot, hot take or anything like that. I think it was just her take on some of what is happening in the in the romantic genre, which you know, anytime something becomes like a a bubble or like becomes a big thing that's growing, there's people who are gonna analyze it and critique it for whatever reason and you know, whatever. I don't know. Maybe she was coming at it more from the writer standpoint. I was thinking of it more from the like what we do where we just talk about the books and stuff. Yeah. I thought it was interesting.

Jonathan:

Yeah, I mean it's I'd I'd like to get more context from from her. Like it's a lot, it's it's a lot of bullet points in the posts. And you're right, it is like so. The other thing is she's she's making a a statement in on a short format social media. Maybe there's room for a larger article or even like a video where she could speak to her points a little more with a little more clarity.

Mari:

And maybe she has, I don't know. I don't follow this, I haven't read anything by this writer. I don't follow her on like Instagram or TikTok or anything. Maybe she has a a longer form version of it. I don't know. This was, I think, posted fairly recently, so maybe she doesn't have one yet and she's working on it. Like this was posted a day ago, so I think it's still kind of gelling, you know?

Jonathan:

Yeah. Let's call her up. Let's get her on a show.

Mari:

Yeah, yeah. All right. Any other new stuff?

Jonathan:

I don't think I have any anything on my end. How about you, Ash?

Ashley:

I tend to send Mari everything. You do. Yeah. And if I've missed anything, please let me know. That is just relatively interesting. I tend to send to her. I don't even know that I do my own vetting, I'm not gonna lie. I think the only oh, the thing I sent you this morning, the Lee Bardugo extension of the six she's continuing the Six of Crows series.

Mari:

Yeah, it's as a it's a short story. So we we vaguely talked about this when she first announced it, but I don't think she had a title released when we first talked about it. So the title, it's it's at the time that we talked about it, it was just gonna be like a short story, you know, continuation Six of Crows short story, but it has a title. It's gonna be called Six of Crows, A Darker Shore, Letters from Ketterdam. It's gonna be released June 30th, 2026. It's 64 pages, so very short. But still, I want it. I will read it. I am I am looking forward to it. So I will probably I think I messaged you this, but yeah, I will probably use that as a motivational tool to maybe do a little reread of some of the the books in that series because I did really enjoy how it ended and where it came to as a series.

Ashley:

So you always rave about the Six of Crows series.

Mari:

I really need to try that one.

Ashley:

I couldn't get into the other one.

Mari:

Yeah, the Shadow and Bone Grueverse. Like I understand it had to happen to kind of start the world, but it's definitely not the one that draws me the most. Like it's definitely all the side people is was the better, was the more compelling storytelling for me, is what what what drew my attention. So any other news bits? That's all I got. Okay. So why we chose this movie? I think just because we wanted to. It's our show, and it's what we wanted to do. There wasn't any real hard reason other than the movie just came out and it's all fresh, and I've watched it a billion times.

Jonathan:

So well, I should say we should add this. You part of why we chose this is because we know it lights you up, Mari.

Mari:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

And that's a and that's okay. We want to lean into some of the things that you like too. And this is like this is I think this is cool for you. I love it.

Mari:

I love Frankenstein, I love Guillermo del Toro. Put them together, and I was I was very excited about this movie coming out, but I was also anxious before it came out because last year, around this time of year, December of 2024, I was really excited about Nosferatu coming out. And I ended up not liking Nosferatu. I know that's kind of I know a lot of people love it. That's fine. I'm not gonna dish dish you know diss on anybody who likes it. It just didn't do it for me, to the point where I dragged poor Kelly to the movies. Kelly hates going to the movies. I dragged him to the movies, and in the middle of the movie, I turned to him and I'm like, I'm so sorry. Once again, Kelly, I'm so sorry. So this year, Giamala Toto released Frankenstein. So let's talk about it. So it was released August 30th, 2025, in Venice at the 82nd Venice International Film Festival, and then October 17th, 2025, in US theaters, and then finally November 7th, 2025 on Netflix. So the synopsis is that the story follows the life of Frankenstein, an egotistical scientist whose experiment in creating new life results in dangerous consequences. Simple and to the point. So let me give a little bit of background here and step in if you have questions, etc. So it was produced, written, and directed by Guillermo del Toro based on the 1818 novel by Mary Shelley. So movie based on a book. Mary Shelley OG Goth Girl. Her and Percy Byshelley allegedly consummated the relationship for the first time in a cemetery where they would secretly meet.

Ashley:

On top of her mother's grave or something, wasn't it?

Mari:

Something like that, yes. Something like that. Like I don't know how much his scandalous stuff has built up over the years. You know, it's hard to parse that out, but I yeah. And then after she died, her family found a copy of a poem written by her husband by Percy by Shelley that she had wrapped around some of his ashes and the remains of his heart that she kept after he died.

Jonathan:

Well, that's interesting.

Mari:

Not at all creepy, guys. Not at all.

Ashley:

So the goth lore is deep, deep with her. I don't even know if that's just goth. Some of that treads differently. Obsession. No, no, that's no.

Jonathan:

Well, I mean, so I think maybe it's it it could just be love. I mean, it could just be passion, right? I mean, what happened back then? Like what what what what would happen to your loved ones when they passed?

Ashley:

Oh no, I was talking about the having sex in a cemetery part.

Jonathan:

Oh, I think we're talking about having this heart hanging out.

Mari:

I mean, I don't know if this is I guess to add more to the story, she was really young. So we're talking about a lot of like teenage hormones happening and rebelliousness and et cetera. Like, I believe at the time he was married to someone else at the time they were meeting up. So it was like illicit, you know, meetups in the cemetery. Get a girl. Yeah, yeah. So yeah.

Jonathan:

Who would go look in the cemetery? You know what I mean?

Mari:

Right. Right. They're like, no one's gonna be looking. So not wrong. Yeah. That's a good point. So then they did they'd been together, they had a child, a baby girl who was born premature and ended up passing away. All this before she even turned 19. So I mean, all this happened very young. So then the summer of 1816, after the the baby died, Mary Shelley and Percy went to summer in in Geneva with Lord Byron and John William Polidori. And this was the setting for the birth of Frankenstein. So setting the mood, 1816 was known the summer of 1816 was known as the summer, the year without a summer, because there was this big volcanic eruption in what is now Indonesia, and it caused like the summer to be cold. So there were like crop failures, there was major food shortages, all like in the northern hemisphere.

Jonathan:

Like a nuclear winter?

Mari:

I don't I don't think it was that bad, but it was definitely unusual, especially when you think about I don't know how much of that they understood at the time. You know what I mean? Um, so you maybe don't know what's going on. You don't have Google, you don't have the internet, just all of a sudden summer's not as summer as it was. Yeah, it was it was an interesting time. And I don't remember Kelly, you're better at trivia and dates and stuff. Do you guys remember Sebastian Nothwell when he remembered in his book Oak King Holly King, he talked about a year where like the summer didn't come? Was it the same year? Like, was it the same year that he was talking about? Was that the same time period? Do you remember?

Jonathan:

After just Googling like like Ash Cloud Winter, like one prominent one pops up, like a volcanic winter of 536. I'm sure there were probably multiples, yeah. Yeah, okay. It's a good way to like express that though, especially like in that time, because that's like it's when you talk about like oak oak king and Holly King, those are those those might be like those are pagan like uh elements. I don't know.

Mari:

Yeah, Oak King, Holly King. I mean, that was the name of of Sebastian's Nottles book, but also it's an older story. I'm not super familiar with it. I don't know what it dates back to, like I don't know which tradition. Like I don't know if it's Celtic. I I don't know, but it's an older story. It's like a like a folk tale or like a fairy tale. I know that it's an old one. And then, of course, you know, he did his his version of it. But back to Frankenstein. So you have Mary Shelley in her hubby, and then you have Lord Byron, who was like this bad boy rock star of his time. He was like bi or pan sexual, just depending. He was had a lot of influence that has continued into modern day culture and pop culture. The the term the Byronic hero basically comes from him. It's an idealized but flawed character whose attributes include great talent, great passion, a distaste for society and social institutions, a lack of respect for rank and privilege, although possessing but possessing both, being thwarted in love by social constraint or death, rebellion, exile, an unsavory secret past, arrogance, overconfidence, or lack of foresight, and ultimately a self-destructive manner, which is seen in a lot of literature. I would say it's like the proto, almost grumpy sunshine. It's the grumpy one in some ways. It's also kind of like an enemies to lovers, like the beginning of all that, or at least contributing towards that. So you have him, and then you have John William Polidori, who is credited as the creator of the vampire genre, um, because he wrote the first modern vampire novel called The Vampire um that summer. As of the same same same summer that they wrote Frankenstein, he wrote that, and his vampire character is widely believed to be based off of Lord Byron. So the vampire tropes that we have in modern like Western culture are are Lord Byron.

Ashley:

Oh.

Mari:

So you have that. That's how Frankenstein, the book, got started. Then we have Guillermo Latoro, who's like kid grew up in Mexico, he's Mexican, he was all about the weird, freaky things, he liked the scary movies, and he had been a fan of Frankenstein for like 50 years, but he'd been trying to make the Frankenstein movie specifically for like 20 years. This was like his his passion project thing. Formerly, like pre-production didn't start till 2008, and he went through a lot of different Frankensteins. Uh he went through different scripts and different ideas, but also a lot of different people that would play his Frankenstein. So originally he thought it was gonna be Doug Jones who did uh the creature in the shape of the water, and he was also the fawn in The Labyrinth?

Kelly:

Pan's Labyrinth.

Mari:

Pan's Labyrinth, thank you. I was like the Fawn's Labyrinth. Pan's Labyrinth. Yeah, he's done, he was what, Abe Sapien in the Hellboy movies?

Kelly:

Correct.

Mari:

He was he's he's in Star Trek. He's been in a bunch of things. One point it was gonna be him, and then more recently it was gonna be Andrew Garfield.

Jonathan:

Sasha.

Mari:

What? Yes, as as the creature in Francasign. And then like nine weeks before they started filming, it it changed. I don't know, I haven't been able to find anything that says why it changed, but it changed. I don't know if Andrew Garfield pulled out if he had other arrangement, you know, other things he had to do. I don't know. But then Jacob Alradi came in and became the creature that we got in the final movie. I mean, from a height perspective, right? Jacob was a good call. Although I guess there's a lot you can play with with perspective and stuff to make you know a character look taller, but yeah, yeah. So Guillermo Toro finally got his Frankenstein. He said it in the Crimean War, which was like in the 1850s. So that's like the setting for this version of Frankenstein that we see. So you have this war setting, which is really common in a lot of Guillermo del Toro's movies and stories. He casts Oscar Isaacs as Victor Frankenstein, he casts Jacob Alati as the creature eventually, and then Mia Gough and Christopher Waltz were the other big ones. And it's funny because he, if you watch some of the documentaries and things, he talks about his idea of Victor Frankenstein was like an uh an artist or like a rock star, like a painter or a rock star. And so that's what he wanted Oscar Isaac to like portray when he was Frankenstein, which I thought was interesting. And the music was done by Alexander de Plot, who did the music for the Grand Budapest Hotel and won won an Academy Award for it, and for The Shape of Water. I really liked the music. I don't remember if I don't think I maybe noticed the music as much the first time I watched it, but definitely the second and third time the music came through as the score came through as like really well done.

Ashley:

I think I'd have I don't think that registered with me on the first watch.

Mari:

I think I tend to I think I tend to the the score tends to come up for me on rewatches. Because I remember when we rewatched The Mummy, I thought about the score a lot too. Like it really like came out to me. I guess because I wasn't as as distracted by all the visuals because like Guillermo Lotoro's movies are usually super visually in Oh yeah. No, there was a lot to witness in this movie. Like I I was reading a an interview book, a journalist that interviewed him, and Guillermo Toro said, like people talk about eye candy and how his movies and stuff, he doesn't want it to be eye candy, he wants it to be eye protein. Like a hearty meal for your eyes.

Ashley:

Bro, that's the biggest dad joke ever, my dude. Yeah, and it it definitely is like it's he's not no, you know what? He delivered. I'm not even mad. I'm only slightly mad at the dad joke, but I'm not really eye protein. He delivered, yeah, yeah.

Mari:

It's it's almost impossible to really watch a Guillermo Litoro movie and like have your eyes be somewhere else, like be on your phone or whatever. You're just not you're not getting it. Yeah, so much is conveyed visually. And he's all about practical effects and practical sets, which makes everything look and feel. More real because it it is like the ship in the movie. They built the ship. It was so big they couldn't build it in a studio, they like built it out in a parking lot. I was gonna say that doesn't sound very practical. Yeah. Okay. Not as opposed to like throwing it to CGI. You know, you'd like watch some of these movies like from the 90s, early 2000s, and that seemed kind of cool at the time, and you go back and watch in the CGI and the special effects look real bad. Real bad. But then you watch some stuff that had practical effects, like a never-ending story or you know, labyrinth or whatever, and it holds up the test of time because you're not relying on the computer wizardry, you're relying on real things, so your your eye doesn't have to be as tricked and it believes more of the fantasy. All right.

Jonathan:

Shout out Jim Henson.

Mari:

I love Jim Henson 100%. Also, Guillermo Toto did they not not he. I know there were a billion, there were a bunch of artists who did this. I don't know who all did all the sets and stuff, but they did the laboratory, like where the creature was created, where where it was born. That was fully built out, like those giant batteries, the giant cross, like all that stuff was like fully fledged, the giant Medusa coin in the back.

Ashley:

I hope he's making a part two then, because this doesn't sound very practical or sound mildly wasteful. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

Well, the the they were just like the two major, like, or what I perceived as two major sets would be like the the manor and then the like the shack, right? And it was or what was that like a mill that he was kind of camped out in?

Mari:

I think it was some part of a mill, yeah.

Jonathan:

Yeah. Like one was very ornate and elaborate. Yeah, one was very basic. And it was that's practical, but not the lab. Um, I think I I think Ash you gotta let go of the I don't think I can. Practical in this means like real, right? Like it was it it wasn't it wasn't the special effect, as opposed to special effects. Correct, yeah. I mean it'd all be special effects, but one one would be like more computer generated effect versus practical effects.

Mari:

Right.

Kelly:

So like this thing was like, yeah, they built the ship, you know, and had a CGI-ish background type thing, but the ship was real when the monster hit somebody and the the person he hit flew across the ship and you know, off the edge of the ship, they had somebody on wires and actually flew across when got hit, they got hit instead of it being just completely CGI.

Mari:

Yeah. And actually, even like obviously there was CGI, you know, to make the scenery in the Arctic things, but also they had these huge like cranes that would like light everything up to do all the lighting. So in addition to like having the actors having the ship, you had to like negotiate all these cranes with cameras and lights and like reflectors to get everything to be lit up just right. And for not as much for the ship scenes, but for the scenes in in the laboratory, Guillaume kept describing the the way that the cameras moved and everything, like was a rock concert. So there was like a lot of movement in the cameras when they filmed. So all that had to be, you had to choreograph with the camera as well as with the actors, as well as around these practical effects. It was interesting. And like there was even a part where they I watched, so there's a there's a documentary on Netflix that's called, I forget what it's called, but it's basically like the the making of Frankenstein. And it's like a little 20-minute documentary about some of the different effects and the different things that went into making it. And they talked about there was a a crew of artists that did the Frankenstein's laboratory from the outside the tower. They did like a to scale miniature of it. A miniature was like still 30 feet tall. And that's what they blew up in the scene where like it it blows up and falls. So they did that as opposed to it being like a total CGI of of the explosion to make it more realistic.

Jonathan:

Yeah. And Ashley, when they blew, when they I like as a practical effect, when they took out Oscar's leg like that. How did you I mean, like, did you see that scene, Ash? And now he's Oscar is without that leg. He gave it all for that It's all very practical. Very practical. No, that was that was a gruesome scene.

Ashley:

It was very gruesome.

Jonathan:

Like it was I I feel like that was very well done.

Ashley:

Extremely top-tier casting, by the way, besides Jacob, like Oscar Isaac. The second I saw Oscar, I was like, my I'm in. Take my money.

Jonathan:

Okay. I mean Oscar, I think Oscar did a really good job of being of making me uncomfortable in the beginning, especially when it was like, what's going on with your brother's fiance? And then but I I think the not the very end of it, but like the moments leading up to to the end, like after he had healed his leg, I thought that was kind of meh, Oscar. Like it just it was almost comic.

Ashley:

Wasn't consistent Oscar for you?

Jonathan:

It wasn't consistent Oscar.

Ashley:

Speak for yourself. I loved him.

Jonathan:

He did a spectacular job.

Mari:

For the most part, this was definitely Guillermo del Toro's version of Frankenstein. So it's not like 100% accurate to the book, which nothing would be unless you're doing like a mini-series that's you know, word for word. But it's his adaptation of it, it's his vibes of Frankenstein. For example, like this is the only version of Frankenstein I've seen or read where Elizabeth Frankenstein is the fiance of Victor Frankenstein's brother. Oh. That's not original. If I'm remembering right, Kelly, have you read Frankenstein?

Kelly:

Yes.

Mari:

She was like a pseudo-cousin to Victor Frankenstein, like she grew up in the same household, but I don't think she was actually related. Like I think she was adopted, and Victor Frankenstein's mother kind of hoped that that she and he would get married. They were being raised together for like an arranged marriage, so to speak, but they weren't actually related. But she also wasn't engaged to anybody else.

Kelly:

Right. She was basically adopted or pseudo-adopted by Victor's family.

Mari:

Which is interesting, adding her as like so in in the book, William Frankenstein, like you know, uh Victor Frankenstein's little brother, is way younger. He's like five years old, uh, and he's not much of a character. Like, spoilers anybody who hasn't read the eight you know the 1800 book, it he dies like very early on.

Ashley:

I was gonna say, is there like a trauma then? Like, is does his mom not die in the Oh, the mom dies too.

Mari:

Like everybody dies just about there's so much trauma. There's a lot of trauma. I think that Guillermo Toro takes the trauma. Like, as far as the if I had to go with the theme for this movie, it would be the intergenerational trauma and like trying to break from it or at least recognize it. Because like Victor Frankenstein's father treats him a certain way, abuses him a certain way, raises him a certain way. And then when Victor Frankenstein creates this creature, he doesn't know what to do with him once he's finally created it. He's sitting like that scene after after he gives the creature life, and then he's sitting on the stairs, like, I'm lost now, I have no idea what to do. Sure. And then when he's trying to like train the creature or teach the creature, he ends up doing the same things his father did. He would hit the creature, he would, you know, beat him, he would berate him. And then the the ending is is 100% Guillermo del Toro. Like it's not in the original book where like the where Victor Frankenstein asks the creature for forgiveness and the creature gives him forgiveness, the breaking of like the intergenerational trauma. That's not in the book, but it was a beautiful message. Yeah, very Hollywood. Yeah, it's also very Guillermo del Toro. Like he said something about like if he had if he had been able to do this 20 years ago, it would have been a dialogue between him and his father. But now that he has grown kids, he feels like the movie was a dialogue between him and his father and his kids and him, you know. Perspective, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he there's a quote that I ran across, uh, an interview somebody did of Guillermo Lotoro and and uh talking about the differences between his version of Frankenstein in the original and the other versions of Frankenstein movies that have come before him. And he said, quote, uh adaptation or adapting is like marrying a widow. You gotta respect the husband's memory, but you gotta get it on.

Ashley:

He's so spicy.

Mari:

He really is.

Ashley:

He's got jokes.

Mari:

Yeah, I yeah, yeah. Skipping over, I don't want to skip over the costume design for this movie. So Kate Hawley did the costume design, and she had worked with him before, with Guillermo de Toro before on Crimson Peak and Pacific Rim. And she was introduced to Guillermo de Toro by Peter Jackson. And I've seen several of like interviews with her of how they came about with the looks for the different characters and how it it further cemented their personalities. Like Victor Frankenstein is this dandy and this rock star and this artist, and the way they dressed him, where he was like kind of punk for his time. Like he had these plaid pants, he had this weird-shaped hat. Like he was not what we consider punk or rock star now, but he was definitely stood out for the time.

Ashley:

Right.

Mari:

And especially like at the beginning where he didn't have as much money towards the end, where he was being funded by the weapons dealer and he had more money, it got his clothing got like more and more elaborate. And then Elizabeth was supposed to be like nature, the power of nature, and how she was obsessed with insects and whatnot. So, like the patterns that they used on her dress, they took like pictures of blood cells and overlaid them over like patterns of malachite. And like for the green dress that she has was those weird round splotches, that's what that is. And then she's wearing this like blue-green dress. They the patterns that they use, the pattern you've seen that is they used x-rays and they like layered it into the tull of the dress. Wow. Yeah, like the details are really interesting. Yeah, no, I had no idea. And then like the the bride dress where she's got the white dress, the the corset that goes over it, the white corset that goes over it, is mimics the rib cage, which you can especially tell as the blood soaks the dress and the ribcage stands out. And then her sleeves with the ribbon on them is is like an homage to the old black and white, like universal Frankenstein bride scene where she's got the ribbons on her on her arms. That dress was spectacular. It was it was a pretty dress, but then when it got like all bloody and the details of it really stood out, it was just like that was amazing design. You thought that through. Yeah. That lady, that lady did her job. Yeah, yeah. Very, very well done. And part of that was guided by like she does a lot of historical stuff, so she knows like the the shapes that things are supposed to be for that period, and like ways to make things look of that period. But like apparently Guillermo Toto was very much like, I don't want this to be a Dickens Victorian thing. No, I don't want it to be all black hats and boring colors. And so she brought in all these patterns and like bright colors, like you know, Elizabeth's like bright yellow bonnet and her her weird like blue feathers and stuff that she wore the in the hair, like the first time that she's met, those were like they were that shape was in in that time. That was like the the the in hairstyle of the time with these weird, like weird shapes around the sides of your uh the sides of your head. And then that costuming brings in, along with some of the the other scene elements, color. Like there's a lot of color being a big thing throughout the movie, which Guillermo de Toro also did this on Crimson Peak. So like in Frankenstein, like at the beginning, where like the first half of the story is the creator's viewpoint, you know, Victor Frankenstein's view viewpoint, and then the second half is the creature's viewpoint. So the first half it's like his childhood is very black and white and red. And then red is like blood, and it's like the mother. And so then his the the the red gets transferred from the mom when she dies to him, and he starts wearing that little red scarf as a kid. And then as an adult, he's got the the blood on his hands with the red gloves, and then there's like the red bed, and then all his his nightmares of the the red angel or whatever. That was the only time he saw red. And then like the dark blues were Christopher Walt's character, Victor Frankenstein's father's character, William Frankenstein, those were like dark navy blues, and these like patriarchal figures. And then Elizabeth Frankenstein was all in the greens. She brought like the greens and the nature. The nature, yeah. Yeah, into it. And I didn't catch this till after the second time I watched the movie. Mia Goth plays both Elizabeth Frankenstein and Victor Frankenstein's mother. I didn't, I did not catch that. Nobody did. It was like they gave her eyebrows and she was a completely different person. I was like, that's not the same person. Um that looked, I'm like, oh wait, it is okay.

Ashley:

Silly human. Yeah.

Jonathan:

I I you know what I didn't like in terms of like costume or or makeup. I'm not I'm not entirely sure. I I I enjoyed the look of the creature.

Mari:

I thought it was fantastic. I thought it was really good too. The patchwork of it all.

Jonathan:

Because I was it was it just didn't land with me.

Mari:

It was supposed to be two things. It was supposed to be representative of stained glass. Um yeah. But also, like Guillermo Toro said he has said in several interviews of his monster creations. Every time he creates a monster, like whether it's Ape Sapien, whether it's Hellboy, whether it's the the shape of the water creature, he wants to know why they are. Like he doesn't want there to be something just because it looks cool, he wants there to be a reason for it. So, like for Frankenstein, he always wondered like, why would Frankenstein have all these scars on him? You know, that in the traditional like universal monster. Like he's like, if you're gonna take a body, you're gonna take a head, you're gonna take a torso, arms and legs. Why are there scars everywhere else? And so in his version of it, he said it in this war period and where Victor Frankenstein had to get corp multiple corpses.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Mari:

And it wasn't just like a full torso. So that's where part of it came from. And then the other thing is that the the the way they designed where the scars and stuff were in the creature's makeup is it would be like where muscles and things were. So the idea being that maybe Victor Frankenstein, you know, being a tinkerer, doing this for the first time, would like get something wrong and then have to like open up a little window, open up a patch to like fix a muscle or something, and then put it back down, you know, like patch it back in. And so that's where you have all these like a lot of it went based off of like the contours of the body.

Jonathan:

It was interesting.

Ashley:

Yeah, Jacob O'Reilly had to sit for like 10 hours for some of those makeups solidly. Yeah, you know what it also reminds me of is what's her name from Guardians of the Galaxy. Oh, yeah.

Jonathan:

Oh yeah.

Ashley:

I just pulled up a picture where it was just like his side profile.

Jonathan:

Is it is it then no hair cabin element?

Ashley:

No, it's it's the color and the texture.

Jonathan:

How did you feel about the hair that he it was interesting to see that grow.

Ashley:

It mimicked his father, his creator. Right. So uh I think that's why I think that's probably why the Guillermo just went that way. It was probably unlikely that he would grow body hair otherwise, though.

Mari:

Yeah. Yeah. I like this movie a lot, obviously. I was looking forward to it. I had high expectations, they were exceeded.

Ashley:

I had no expectations and they exceeded.

unknown:

Yeah.

Ashley:

I don't I honestly think Jacob Alordi was probably one of the best castings they could have made. I mean, like his facial features alone, you know, the very heavy brow, like that's that's natural to him. That wasn't makeup or prosthetics or you know, anything. And again, his his height and his length, right? Like that gangly but also muscular, you know, perspective. Uh, I really thought that was top-tier casting. I thought Mia Goth did a fantastic job, you know, being a little whimsical, a little serious, and you know, just that that concept of attaching yourself to something different, right? Kind of like it in the way that I I attached myself, you know, emotionally to my dog. Like that dog could have been human to me. Um, I thought, you know, everyone did it. And fucking Littlefinger. Was Littlefinger in this movie? No. No, who am I thinking of? Christopher Waltz. Is that who it is? The the arms. Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan:

Syphilis.

Mari:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

I didn't see that coming. I did was that in the book too?

Mari:

Did he no his character was not in the book at all, which was interesting because I didn't know what to expect from him, but I I I think he was an interesting, like patriarchal patriarchy kind of fit-in character because you had this money for Victor Frankenstein, and Victor didn't care where it came from. It was it was he was an arms dealer, but Victor didn't care. He was just so obsessed with like what he wanted to do, he didn't care what it took for him to get to his goal. He took money from anybody, and he was willing to do it up until well, I guess even beyond the moment where he a Christopher Waltz character was like, I want my braid in the creature in in the Frankenstein, and Victor was like, nah.

Jonathan:

Was that because he was too far gone? It's interesting because in that moment, like if you if you if what you want and and so think if it were me and there's a goal that I wanted to achieve, and I'm so close, and it's just hinging on like I need this guy's help. Like, like at the it at that time, you should be like, well, I've clearly I can't do it now, right? Because we need to just make sure this is gonna work. But yeah, like it, yeah, cool. We'll we'll hook you up. Come and see me on Monday. You know, at which point I can say no on Monday, but like in that moment. But I'll just be like, yeah. Yeah, I got you. Brain? Cool. What do you what do you want to be a a brunette? You want to be a blonde? What do you want? I'll hook you up. Like it didn't make sense to me that he was gonna say no.

Ashley:

But it made it interesting that that was the line for him.

Jonathan:

For who?

Ashley:

For the doctors.

Jonathan:

Yeah, like why like why why all of a sudden did that matter?

Mari:

Because it would have messed up his creation. That's really all he cared about was him succeeding.

Jonathan:

I I but I don't think in that moment it was supposed to be or didn't strike me. I didn't perceive it as it being like the a singular creation, like, hey, this is our test subject, and you'll be what's next. We don't need the first mover. We can be the improver. And maybe it is a little bit of technology. Like we've developed this technology, we can prove it works now. We can e there's an evolution where we can if you can take these other dead folks and resurrect them of sorts, then you can take what's what may be perceived as my consciousness and implant it into another being and give me a second shot at life.

Ashley:

Yeah. Which ultimately didn't work, right? Or maybe because the subjects were already dead, deceased when he built the monster.

Jonathan:

But like if he had just taken built friend, I'd prefer if you refer to him as friend.

Ashley:

Uh well, that's not what the doctor called him, but anyway.

Jonathan:

Um the doctor wasn't polite.

Ashley:

No, he was a narcissist.

Jonathan:

Yeah.

Ashley:

He was a traumatized, a traumatized narcissist. So, you know, nurture versus nature. Like, what would have happened if his parents were or his mom had survived, right, and lived longer and he had the nurturing to become a decent, a more decent human. Yeah.

Jonathan:

It's interesting. That's maybe an entirely different debate we could get into and would love to.

Ashley:

No, I just it's perspective though, right? Like he was an asshole, right? But at the end of the day, he was unwilling to take a living body and and create something different from that, from those pieces.

Jonathan:

Well, I think he just drew that line because of it, it wasn't it wasn't the best of the best.

Ashley:

You know, it was like uh because his body was already compromised with the disease, because his brain was already compromised.

Mari:

Because you gotta remember, like on the battlefield, remember on the scene in the battlefield, like Victor Frankenstein was like cherry picking the best of the body parts. You wanted to cherry pick the brain?

Jonathan:

I assume so. How could he? I don't know.

Ashley:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Jonathan:

Cherry pick the thought process. He I mean, like you could probably examine the corpse and like, hey, this is disease, this is probably no good. Which he went through a bunch of I mean, he had a whole disposal system.

Mari:

Yeah. Well, and and you know, in the original book, Barry Shelley doesn't really go into any detail as to how the creature is created. So, like all these labor, you know, laboratory scenes you see in all the movies are all imagination. So this is just like Gil Yellow Dotoro's take on it.

Ashley:

Yeah, yeah. The knowledge back then would have been extremely limited, especially to a woman, no less. Right.

Mari:

Like a 19-year-old girl, basically. Yeah. Sure. Right.

Jonathan:

Who taught her to read?

Mari:

Actually, her mother was a feminist, and her father was a like he had a lot of political ideological views, and he he he taught her, he was very adamant that she be Yeah, I was just joking.

Jonathan:

I'm cool. I'm good.

Ashley:

No, but that's probably those are two very strong reasons why you know the answer to your question is valid. Like in that day and age, was that a priority, especially in a certain level of income? Right? Reading m reading much less writing. Right. Or the time to write a book. Yeah.

Mari:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Did she she didn't publish initially under her own name, did she? I thought I read that she didn't. She had a lot of fun.

Mari:

I think that she didn't, but like the the forward to the book was done by her husband, and so everyone assumed that he had written it, because he was already an established writer at that point. And then it was like published anonymously. Yeah, and then like later on, like on a a republish or re-release or something, she put her name on it and and he was like, No, really, I didn't write this, she did.

Ashley:

Yeah, it took a few years, so it was published in 1818 un anonymously, it says, and he wrote the preface. Preface? I think so. Sometimes I read words and I don't say them correctly. He make Jonathan makes fun of me. But her first credit came several years later, 1821. And that was just the French translation, 1823, before English trend the English edition was published under her name. Fascinating.

Jonathan:

You can write a book, Ash. I'll I'll I'll support that.

Ashley:

I don't have the imagination for it. I could probably like scrub it if somebody wrote a book. I could probably edit it to a degree.

Jonathan:

So if you're an author out there looking to get a book edited, is your gal volunteer's tribute.

Mari:

Yeah. Any other thoughts we had on the movie?

Jonathan:

I the how vulnerable was was Victor. It felt this is interesting because it it felt a little it felt mildly hopscotchy at the end. Like I really I enjoyed I enjoyed the opening. I enjoyed the the establishing of the storyline, the the the journey that that Victor took in order he all the way up until like when when it when he blew his leg up. Like I was like, oh man, this is good. But then I think the wheels for me, for me, the and this isn't for everyone, but the wheels fell off for me after his after the explosion, after he tried to take out Creek friend.

Mari:

That's funny. The the wheels fell off for me as far as being on his team earlier on.

Jonathan:

Okay.

Mari:

For me, it was when he tried to tried to seduce his brother's fiance.

Jonathan:

It was a very interesting development there.

Ashley:

To be fair, she sent him some signals. No. She did.

Jonathan:

Uh I mean, it it it's his brother's fiance.

Mari:

Like that's not I think she had genuine scientific and like intellectual curiosity in him. Because I think that she I don't think she had any real feelings for William Frankenstein either, to be honest. I think she was, like many women of that time, told who you're going to marry. I think she was a a pawn and her what was Christopher Wall's character? It wasn't her father, her uncle. It was her uncle. Yeah, her uncle. Her uncle was like, This is who you're going to marry. Because she basically went from the the nunnery, the convent, to like being a fiance. And I don't think that she had any real say in this situation. I think she was interested in Victor Frankenstein as like an intellectual equal. And I feel like once he was like, and I wish I could remember the exact words, but the the scene that happened in his apartment, in Victor Frankenstein's apartment, where he's like, Hey, I like you. And she had when she went and brought him the butterfly. And she was like, she like brushed him off and left. I feel like that's the point at which she realized that he was wanting more.

Jonathan:

Yeah.

Mari:

There was an interview I saw with Jacob Already where he said that like when Guillermo Lototo was directing him, like telling him how to what to what to look into and research and whatever for the creature, he told them, Don't, don't study people, study your dog. Yeah, the creature friend was like a dog, wanted to be loved, wanted to be like I didn't even know that, Maureen.

Ashley:

I just told the story about Bubba. Yes. Yes. I was right. Yeah.

Jonathan:

Yeah. I I I feel I feel that as well. Like it could have it was very much this unforgiving, not unforgiving. What's the word? Un unwavering. Maybe it is unwavering.

Ashley:

It's it was just gratitude.

Jonathan:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Um it was it was gratitude towards the person that gave him time and attention and kindness. And then because his brain was able to learn from the stories, right? He read and read and read, and he or he was read too. Yeah. And so he learned that he had been done wrong by. And that's why he was searching out his creator.

Mari:

Exactly. All right.

Ashley:

Do we think it's a kissing story?

Jonathan:

Yes, I think it's a kissing story mostly because at the end they kiss.

Ashley:

Yeah, it's a kissing story. This story. This is background there. Scoff at us.

Kelly:

They did kiss.

Mari:

Kelly?

Kelly:

I mean, I would say the way it was done by Guillermo Del Torah, it is.

Mari:

I agree. I think it's a kissing story in the romantic sense between Elizabeth and the creature/slash friend. But I think it's also a kissing story in the familial love sense.

Jonathan:

That paternal offspring.

Mari:

Yeah, that parent child. Yeah, except for the biggest thing. Well, I think it's mommy mistakes.

Ashley:

Oh, I think it's mommy. Victor Frankenstein had huge mommy issues. Huge mommy issues. So he was in love with his mother. Yes. And had to kiss me. And then his mother turned into his his his girlfriend. Wannabe girlfriend. Wannabe girlfriend, right?

Mari:

So yeah, this is this is all inappropriate types of kissing. And like the only thing you ever see Victor Frankenstein drinking is milk. I'm just saying. The entire movie.

Jonathan:

I clocked that. I just didn't want to say it because everybody makes fun of me for loving milk. It's solid. It's accurate.

Mari:

Yeah, so I agree. Kissing, kissing story for sure. The quote that I couldn't think of that Elizabeth Frankens, the Elizabeth character says at the end when she's dying is to be lost and to be found, that is the lifespan of love. Yeah.

Jonathan:

Interesting.

Mari:

One last thing I will recommend, even though I've not yet listened to it, because I didn't want it to get in any way confused or influenced for our episode. But Sarah and Jess at Hissin and Kissin podcasts have done a Frankenstein episode. I don't know if it's just on this movie or if it's Frankenstein in general, but just knowing them, I would recommend if you like this, if you enjoyed this, go listen to that. I'm gonna listen to it after this too. I would I would listen to that episode of theirs. Anything else before we wrap it up, guys?

Ashley:

No, I think we killed it.

Mari:

Yeah. Did we revive it?

Jonathan:

We resurrected it.

Mari:

We resurrected it, brought it back to life. It lives, it's alive.

Jonathan:

With them, did they have that moment in there? Like that I I'll I'll I'm gonna be honest. My favorite, my favorite friend is uh Peter Boyle.

Mari:

Is that from young Frankenstein?

Jonathan:

Yeah, Franken Frankenstein.

Mari:

I have not actually seen that movie.

Jonathan:

Blasphemer.

Mari:

I know.

Jonathan:

It's it's it's com it's comical. I need to watch it.

Mari:

Kelly, we need to watch that sometime. Okay. Yeah.

Jonathan:

Ashley, do you want to go for a roll in the hay? Roll, roll, roll, in the hay. It's in the movie, it's in the movie.

Mari:

That sounds like a pass for me. All right. Thanks for listening to Of Swords and Soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate, review, and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us and let us know what you're enjoying and what you want more of. Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, or Goodreads of Swords and Soulmates. Check us out on our website of Swords and Soulmates.com. If you'd like to offer suggestions for future episodes, books, or topics, feel free to reach out to us on DMs at any of those options or email us at Mariet of Swords and Soulmates.com. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode and get chapter by chapter interaction, join our Fable app Book Club by searching for the Of Swords and Soulmates Book Club. And last but not least, we hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode when we will be talking about the book Good Spirits by B.K. Borison. Christmas time. Bye. Bye, guys.

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Mari

Host
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Ashley

Co-host
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Jonathan

Co-host
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Kelly

Co-host

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