Of Swords and Soulmates

Wicked: Power, Friendship, Popularity, Love

• Mari • Season 2 • Episode 47

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Oz isn’t just emerald and glitter; it’s a lesson in how stories get made and weaponized. We jump from Gregory Maguire’s Wicked to the Broadway phenomenon and the record-breaking film to unpack how a green-skinned girl became a political problem, a best friend, and a cultural icon. Along the way, we contrast the novel’s darker theology and politics with the musical’s friendship-forward heart and the movie’s big-screen mythmaking, asking what each version chooses to spotlight—and why.

We dig into the performances that make the film crackle: Jeff Goldblum’s attention-hoarding Wizard, Michelle Yeoh’s velvet-gloved operator as Madame Morrible, and Cynthia Erivo’s fierce, aching Elphaba who refuses to be managed. Peter Dinklage’s Dr. Dillamond turns prejudice into a gut punch, while Glinda’s arc reveals how image and approval can be tools of control. 

Beyond the screen, we step through Universal’s Wicked Experience in Orlando—costumes, set pieces, and a guided path from Shiz to Emerald City—proof that modern fandom doesn’t end with credits. Then we broaden the lens: why monster stories surge in a perfection-obsessed era, how propaganda reframes dissent as danger, and what it costs to speak when silence is safer. We’re saving the “is it a kissing story” verdict for the sequel, but the first film already hits where it counts: who gets to define good, and will your friends still stand close when the posters call you wicked?

Tell us: book, musical, or movie—who nailed Oz for you? Subscribe, rate, and share to bring more listeners into the Emerald City conversation.

News and Links

  • LitJoy preorders for The Prisoner’s Throne by Holly Black (Link)
  • Cover for Adversary to the Villain by Hannah Nicole Maeher (Instagram Link)
  • Cover for World’s Okayest Oracle (Reluctantly) Seeks Demon by Olivia Dade (Instagram Link)
  • Author LJ Andrews has suffered a fire. Donation Link & Instagram Link
  • BK Borsion’s sequel to Good Spirits (Ghosted series) will be called Grim Tidings (Instagram Link)
  • Ali Hazelwood released an audio first foray into the realm of dark academia on Spotify (Link) 
  • Vogue Australia article on Monster Romance (Link to article)
  • Hannah F Whitten is releasing a new book in 2026, Reliquary (Instagram Link)

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Mari:

Views expressed in the podcast are solely those of the citizens. The hosts make no claims to be literary expressed, and their opinions are exactly those opinions. All reads of works discussed or views are the intellectual properties of creators of their stories and the views under the fair use doctrine.

Kelly:

Hey everyone, it's Kelly. We also have Ashley.

Ashley:

Hey guys, it's Ashley. We also have Jonathan.

Jonathan:

It's the most wonderful time. What's good, everybody?

Mari:

Yes. Oh no.

Jonathan:

For those who don't understand that reference, that's a that's what's it? It's the Holiday Spectacular? The Grinch Grinch. Yes.

Mari:

It's just called the Grinch Show, or what is it?

Kelly:

Is it the Hooliday Spectacular?

Mari:

Okay. At Universal, yeah. It's from that. Very, very niche. And yet it ties in to some of the stuff we're gonna have to be talking about today. So we're gonna be discussing Wicked the Movie, based on the book by Gregory McGuire. But first, as always, some news, lots of news today. So much news. So much news. And I'm sure I've still forgotten stuff. So if you guys want to add things, feel free. Um, first thing I have is that Lidjoy has opened pre-orders for their version of The Prisoner's Throne by Holly Black. So Lidjoy had done the folk of the air series, and so this is the second book of the this little mini duology that came after that, the stolen air series. So this is the completion of all that. They're all beautiful, they all match. It's $50, and it's set to ship out in September of next year, September of 2026.

Ashley:

That doesn't seem like a bad price.

Mari:

No, it's so pretty. Like those versions, those that version to me, the Litjoy version of that book is the prettiest versions of those that series. There's been several versions of of like Cool Prince and all that stuff, but I think this is their version's the prettiest. Next is that there's been a cover reveal for Adversary to the Villain by Hannah Nicole Mare. The cover design is by Elizabeth Turner Stokes, and the book itself will be released August 4th of next year, 2026. Which is really pretty. It does feel fast.

Kelly:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

She has uh who's the artist again?

Mari:

Elizabeth Turner Stokes.

Jonathan:

Now, has she done the uh that the art for her other books? Because it it looks fairly it looks like it followed, it looks like it's when I see this book. I think the spine's gonna match. It's gonna be the same shape, size, it's gonna have I like the style in which she does the the the edges are are like I like a solid color edge.

Mari:

Yeah, which this one does, it has it's like a pink edge, right?

Jonathan:

Yeah.

Mari:

Well, I'm on the off on the artist on Elizabeth Turner Stokes Instagram page, and she has assistant to the villain here, so she at least did that one. I don't know if she did all of them, but she's got assistant to the villain on her page, is one that she did. So maybe she didn't do all of them, but she did that one and but the books all match as far as size and art seem to present. Oh, yeah, and so for that I've been what was that, Kelly?

Kelly:

The most important thing is that the books are all the same size with the same response and lettering and orientation.

Jonathan:

1000%.

Mari:

Yeah, I'm I'm so happy because you know, my usual my usual late lately, my usual example, usual example of that is the the newest Travis Baldry book, The Brigands and Breadnives or whatever. Like all the Legends and Latte books are have come out in paperback, and then this one came out in hardcover, and there was no sign of when the paperback was gonna come, and I refuse to buy it. Oh no because the rest of mine are paperback. They just they just announced that the paper when the paperback that a paperwork will be released, and it will be released. I think it's like in April. So I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm getting it then. It's fine.

Ashley:

It's good that they listen to the people.

Kelly:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mari:

I I like I like if it's a series, I like it to match. I don't not everything from the same author has to be the same, obviously, but like if it's a series, come on.

Ashley:

I think that's a reasonable expectation, by the way. It pisses off a lot of fans when they deviate from you know patterns and such. Like I know a lot of I've seen a lot of people with like the Crescent City series by Sarah J. Mass, and it's you know, the two really large paperbacks, and then this giant hardback that's like three inches taller and just a completely different, you know, shape and style compared to the paperbacks.

Mari:

So unnecessary.

Ashley:

It's so rude. Yeah.

Mari:

Um, speaking of more cover reveals, Olivia Dade has announced or revealed the cover for her latest book coming up, which is The World's Ocayest Oracle reluctantly seeks demon. And that's the sequel. I know, but it's it is a mouthful. It's a sequel to Zom Romcom, which I very much enjoyed this year. The cover design for this one is by Lenny Lenai. I am so sorry. Eli and I is the first name, Kaufman's the last name. It's the same person who did the the artwork for Zomromcom as well. Um so that book is going to release August 11th, 2026. August is going to be a busy month next year.

Jonathan:

All right. Does this take place in the same okay? And is it are they two separate, two different characters, or did one movie?

Mari:

Oh no, it's separate characters. But these characters are mentioned in the first book. Like I recognize them from the first book.

Kelly:

Oh.

Mari:

So Zrom Kong that haven't read it, it's like it's it's post-apocalyptic. The zombie apocalypse has happened. And there's like magical elements in the world. You know, there's like whatever vampires, witches, zombies. I mean, if there's zombies, of course, there's everything else. Um and it's a bit absurd. Like at one point, there's Girl Scouts in this book.

Ashley:

It's just stop it.

Mari:

It is all over the place in the best way possible. I like Olivia Dade's writing style, anyways. I've read, I think all she's I believe everything she's written up until Zomromcom, at least everything published, is contemporary romance. I've read, I think, all of them and I've enjoyed them. And so I was very excited to read Zom Romcom when it came out, to the point that after I read it, I like messaged her through her website. She's not on any social media. I was like, I really like your books.

Jonathan:

It's like it's like a it's like it's almost like this metaphor for like like post-pandemic life after it, you know, because it it like if you think about like what their what their occupations are in Zomromcom through the and then it'll like it's plausible today.

Mari:

Like there's like the the you basically when when there's a the alarm goes off and zombies are happening, you you hole up in your house. And so both of these people have jobs slash things they can do from home and still interact, like online, you know, Instagrammer type influencer or like making crafts in your basement kind of thing. Those are their jobs.

Jonathan:

Absolutely. It was a good it was a good story. It's a I I definitely didn't fall in love with it until like probably about a third of the way into it, but it was a good story. Yeah.

Mari:

The next thing I have is I think I I don't remember if it was I know it was you guys, either Jonathan or Ash. One of you guys sent this to me, that author LJ Andrews had posted that there they had suffered a fire in where they kept their inventory that ended up affecting like a lot of their signed copies, their swag, their special editions. And it also happened to be like their sister's house. Nobody got hurt, but items and of course somebody's home was destroyed.

Jonathan:

And I I think this is more for because like LJ Andrews is gonna survive. Like she I when she posted this, it was more about like, hey, also this was this is my sister's house. Right.

Mari:

And by the way, LJ Andrews is doing through their website, they have a donation spot when there's also a GoFundMe. So there if you, you know, can throw something that way, if you know, if that's something that you can and want to do to help out, then that would be the way to help out that situation. And also just getting it out there. If you have anything you're waiting for LJ Andrews to ship you, if you've bought something or pre-ordered something or whatever, like give grace. There's a lot that's been going on with that. If you're waiting on like a signed book or special edition or stuff swag or whatever, like this is what's going on there.

Kelly:

Right.

Jonathan:

It's likely all also a good way to indirectly support or to support directly, but like if you're if you're like, hey, if you're not in that giving, or if you want to like double give, like what you could do is buy a book and gift it to a friend.

Mari:

Right.

Jonathan:

Uh you know, every little thing helps, I'm sure.

Mari:

Yeah, absolutely. The next hitbit I have is that BK Borison, who we've talked about in the past, has released information about their sequel to Good Spirits. So it's apparently gonna be called the Ghosted series. The sequel is gonna be called Grim Tidings. It will release fall of 2026. We haven't read Good Spirits. We're gonna be reading it, spoiler, we're gonna be reading it for the Christmas season, for the December season for the podcast. So can't tell you anything about it yet. Other than there's a sequel coming out already. Like there's not a hard release date, and there's no picture or anything for the cover, and there's no blurb. It's just it's coming, basically.

Jonathan:

I imagine my guess is fall 2026, October. This is probably maybe this is like a one-year cycle.

Mari:

Uh Halloween-y kind of well, but didn't when did did Good Spirits not come out in October?

Jonathan:

It it came out a couple weeks ago, I thought.

Mari:

Oh, was it November?

Jonathan:

I you know, I'm not sure. But it's definitely up right now.

Mari:

So Good Spirits released on because I know it's out already. A Tuesday.

Jonathan:

It was a Tuesday.

Mari:

Oh, imagine that October, October 21st. So maybe it's like a one-year cycle.

Jonathan:

Oh impressive.

Mari:

Yeah, I mean, it gives people time to read it before the busy holiday season. You know, like I like to wait till closer to end of November, December to read like those holiday books, but some people just read them early. So nothing wrong with that.

Jonathan:

Oh, I hope it's like I hope it's a oh no, that's what we're reading. Never mind. I'm so sorry.

Mari:

It's that author.

Jonathan:

So yeah, I was like, yeah, it was it's like a Christmas Carol thing.

Mari:

So it would be interesting if it's like the different ghosts. Maybe each book is a different one of the different ghosts from from Christmas Carol. I don't know.

Jonathan:

No, that's I mean, that sounds yes. Ooh, I'm gonna have to pay attention more now.

Mari:

Because if I'm thinking grim tidings, I'm thinking the ghost of of of Christmas future that could be. That's the one that that was the grim tiding. That's the one that had all the the death, you know, uh symbology in it, right?

Jonathan:

Yeah.

Mari:

So we'll see. We'll see. You guys are so smart. I love that. I love Christmas Carol. I love that story a lot. So I I could probably like if the apocalypse happened and we were sitting around a fire, I could probably tell you the story in a close way. All right, next bit of news. There is a company called Wow Nine that is doing, and I've seen this over several media, social media and websites and whatnot. It's an advent book, not an advent calendar. It's a book, and it's divvyed up by day. So you have like parts of the story that happen that you read every day throughout the month of December. And at the end, you've read a little like holiday book. And there's three different ones you can get. There's like a YA one, there's like a traditional, I think, contemporary romance one, and there's one that's got a little bit of a time jumpy element to it, like a miracle on 34th Street kind of vibe. It seems like a really cool idea to me. There's $32.99. I don't know anything about this company. I've never bought anything from the company, but it seemed like a really cool concept, like a different take on the advent calendar.

Jonathan:

Oh, yeah. This is really neat.

Mari:

Right? I mean, all it is is a way of making you only read a little bit per day. You could do technically, you could do the same with any book you own. But I like that. Technically. Technically.

Jonathan:

It's aligned, it's aligned with the 24 chapters, like one for each uh December, all the way up. There are, I'll I'll text you with like an off-the-record book that a lot of people do that with.

Mari:

Okay. That'd be good. I'm down. Yeah, but I thought that was a really interesting because I've seen several like book-related advent calendars. I love an advent calendar.

Ashley:

I love an advent calendar.

Mari:

Especially something that's not stuff, that's kind of like a consumable advent calendar. Where it's like tea or chocolate or, you know, cheese. We did a cheese advent calendar. Aldi's had cheese advent calendars, did that one year. Yeah, stuff like that, where it's just like you don't have a bunch of tchotchkis or things to have to find a place for, you know, at the end of the month. It's just you enjoy the experience of whatever the thing is. Um like Jeannie did, I don't know if she does this every year, but one year they did like experiences. So there was like a little like scre scrap of paper in every year of the in every day of the advent calendar, and they did an experience. And it could be something as small as like lighting a candle, or it could be like going ice skating or you know, putting together a gingerbread house or whatever. Um, just something, you know, to touch base to be together or whatever. Yeah, celebrate for for like the the winter season. So next bit that I have is from Allie Hazelwood. So she's released a book. I think it's the first time she's done this. I I don't know a lot of authors that do this, but it's an audio first only. So there's no, you can't read this with your eyeballs anywhere. So she's doing it with Spotify, but it's also available on like anywhere you can buy audiobooks. It's called Bound, B-O-U-N-D, and it's it's a Dark Academia by Ellie Hazelwood, but it's an audiobook. Interesting. I am intrigued. I will probably listen to it at some point. I've not listened to it yet. But I like dark academia, I like Allie Hazelwood. You know, and something that is produced first and primarily for audio should be a good listening experience, I would think. You know? It's definitely an interesting take.

Jonathan:

How does it feel now that she was on the other foot? Now that the word the letters are on the other ear. The letters are on the other ear. You're so silly.

Mari:

Now that the turns have tabled.

Jonathan:

Exactly.

Mari:

I've never been anti-audiobook.

Jonathan:

I know. You're you're all you're a big audiobook supporter.

Mari:

I however you get the story, however, you enjoy the story. You know, I don't think it matters how you how you get it. So but I'm I'm intrigued by that. I think it'll be an interesting read. Also, Allie Haswood has been busy, very busy. There's uh something that she's teasing on her web on her Instagram page. No real information. It's this like logo that says AH Square, like H2O, whatever, but it's A H and the 2 is very little in the upper right-hand corner. AH2 2026 collection, and it's got like flowers around the outside, and people are speculating what it is. And she's like coming soon.

Ashley:

What's she up to? I don't know. That's suspicious.

Mari:

It's a collection. So is it another like Kickstarter thing? Like what you know, her and uh oh god, what was her name? Uh Adriana. I'm bad at the one.

Jonathan:

Like the one the one that just popped out? Yeah. The it's it's not a uh I wanted to say like a compendium, but that's not what it is, like a compilation.

Mari:

Yeah, well, yeah, a collection at least. Yeah, yeah. So are they doing another one of those, maybe? I don't know.

Jonathan:

Maybe. I thought great. I thought that that model was great. All the collection of novellas, and I thought hers, I enjoyed hers and Ruby Dixon's probably the most.

Mari:

Are you talking about the scared scared ones? Okay, I know I'm talking to the other ones.

Kelly:

Oh.

Mari:

The ones that were like post-apocalyptic romance. Remember, we talked about those? It was Kickstarter.

Jonathan:

We talked about one was on Kickstarter, one was on Amazon? Yes.

Mari:

Yeah. Yeah. The scared ones, what were they called? Scared sexy, I think.

Jonathan:

That's probably what it was. Yeah. Yeah.

Mari:

Yeah. We read, I think between you and me, we may have read all of them. I don't know if anybody else has read any of them.

Ashley:

I did not get to them.

Mari:

They're fun. They're not specifically Halloween. You could really read them anytime. I thought they were good. I haven't I did buy the ebook and audio of the collection I can't think of, the one that's that Ellie Hazelwood did with the other author. I just haven't read any of them yet because time it does get away from me.

Jonathan:

Mm-hmm.

Mari:

Um, but yeah, what she's got something coming. Don't know what it is, but there's something new coming. Um I appreciate the hype.

Ashley:

I know. Creating some hype.

Mari:

Yeah, yeah. Figure out what what she's got, what she's got coming. Next bit I had was a article in Vogue, Australia, written by Karen Leong, L-E-O-N-G. And the article is called Um Why Pop Culture Loves Monsters and What It Says About Us. What does it say about us? That's a great question. And it basically talks about the success of like the Frankenstein movie and the Nasferadu movie and more like monster romance and monsters in fantasy kind of becoming a bigger, more mainstream kind of thing. And one of the people that interviewed was basically said that, like, see, fantasy, this is Christine Rafe from Love Honey. It's a she's a sex wellness expert that was interviewed for the article and says, fantasy is a really healthy and safe way to explore desire, power, and identity, to tap into something novel, transgressive, and taboo. They, as in like the monsters, are intense, unpredictable, and unapologetically different. You're here. Yeah. And then another quote from that that I thought was interesting from that article is in a world of perfect-looking people with perfect-looking lives online, the allure of monsters is that they're a refreshing take on human attraction that strips away the prejudice of beauty standards and societal expectations. It forces you to face a mirror to your own beliefs in a way that's quite beautiful, really.

Jonathan:

I'm feeling really called out though. Let me just say, let me call you out further. Uh we're we're now talking about a generation with purchasing power that was raised on Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, you know, the the this this those sweet type of like monsters. Um and now that now that they're adults and have grown into their own and are still living in this very interesting world, they can tell the stories or um ex will seek out those comfortable forms of expression.

Mari:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

In in a more mature way.

Mari:

Yeah.

Kelly:

Mature.

Mari:

Like to me, I will say the same thing I said at the the monster romance panel that I did with with Sarah from Hissing and Kissing at Draencon. To me, monsters romance, a big allure of the monster romance is is the idea that like if a monster can find love, if a monster can be loved, if there's someone out there for a monster, then there's hope for all of us. We all deserve love. Yeah.

Jonathan:

Yeah. Well, yeah, we used to what do we used to say in school? There's an ass for every seat. Yeah.

Ashley:

Jonathan had to put it in boy real quick. Sorry.

Jonathan:

That's translation.

Mari:

Okay. Next bit, I think the last bit of news I have is Hannah F. Witten, who wrote the Wildwood Wilder Wood series for the wolf and the Foxglove King and a few other books. She's releasing a new book. She was actually at RomanityCon, but I think she was just there on Friday because I was, I didn't realize she was just there one day. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna, I didn't I didn't buy her book, I was gonna buy it from her, but I had to buy it from the bookstore. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna get it from the bookstore and get her to sign it. But I did that, I planned to do that the second day and she was gone. Oh yeah. But her books are like kind of if you like One Dark Window, you might like her books. So kind of I like One Dark Window. Yeah, kind of dark, kind of like dark folk tale kind of vibes. Okay. Yeah. So she is coming up with a new book that I don't think is a I don't think it's a traditional fantasy book. It's called Reliquary. It's a psychological fiction, is what it's being categorized as. It releases August 11, 2026. I don't know that it would, it'll be like the traditional fantasy books that we think of, but the reason I'm mentioning it is because she's doing a thing now where every dot a dollar, a dollar from every pre-order of that book will be split between Raisus charity organization and World Central Kitchen charity organization. Yeah, which I don't know a ton about RaiSis, but World Central Kitchen is a very good organization. It helps feed like emergency workers and people after like natural disasters and political man-made and natural disasters all around the world. Like you could basically know what's going on and be up to date on the news if you just follow their social social media pages and they'll tell you where they're at. Like, oh, we're in Puerto Rico now, you know, like after Hurricane Maria. Oh, we're in here now after this hurricane, or we're here after this political unrest. Everywhere that there's something going on, they're there. Yeah, they do really important, really good work. Yeah, yeah. So I thought that was really neat. I don't know her story. I don't know why she's choosing this. I it may have something to do with the the story of the that particular book, I'm not sure. Or if something else happened, I don't know why. But she's she's doing that. I was like, oh, that's really cool. So I thought I would mention that on there, on here.

Ashley:

Agreed.

Kelly:

Yeah.

Mari:

Any other news anybody want to mention?

Ashley:

I don't think I have news.

Jonathan:

No, I'm fresh out.

Ashley:

Yeah. Yeah. I try to make sure I get you all the quality news.

Mari:

Yeah, and I try and post it all or keep it in one place to post. The only thing I didn't that we may have talked about that I didn't talk post to talk about today, because I think we talked about last time we did news, is that Sword and Sparrow sequel like cover has been released. But I think I want to say we talked about that because it was really pretty. I think I I feel like we talked about it. Um I think I think I remember talking about it. Yeah.

Jonathan:

Did we mention the Goodreads voting?

Mari:

We did not. Shield of Sparrows. I'm sorry I said that wrong. Shield of Sparrows sequel book cover has been announced. Um yeah, Goodreads is doing their like where you start to pick up the the vote on the categories, like best horror, best ya, all that stuff. So if you have an opinion, or if you've read a lot in one in one category, which you don't have to vote in every category. If all you've read is like horror books this year or whatever, you can just vote in that one category. But it's a 2025 Goodreads Choice Awards, and it's on now that you can go through and like vote on the different categories. Plus, it's if nothing else, it's also a good way. If there is a category that you're particularly interested in, it's a good way to be like, oh, maybe you want to try and read these before the this these particular books before the end of the year. That way you'll have an opinion on what wins the good reads, you know, whether you thought it should or shouldn't or whatever.

Ashley:

I think they all should win.

Mari:

Yeah.

Ashley:

It's been that kind of year.

Mari:

Yeah. I would say there are a lot of a lot of good books being nominated. So in the romantic-specific category, since that's the main one we focus on. I'm just gonna read the titles. Direbound by Sable Sorensen, Accomplice to the Villain by Hannah Nicole Mereer, Mate by Allie Hazlewood, Immortal by Sue Lynn Tan, Bonds of Hercules by Jasmine Mawes, Rose and Chains by Julie Soto, Our Vicious Oaths by N. E. Davenport, Enchantra by Kaylee Smith, Alchemized by San Lin Yu, The Songbird and The Heart of Stone by Carissa Broadbent, Shield of Sparrows by Devney Perry, The Wrath of the Fallen Gods by Amber Nicole, The Irresistible Urge to Fall for Your Enemy by Bridget Knightley, On Wings of Blood by Briar Bolan, Emily Wilde's Compendion of Lost Tales by Heather Fawcett, Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yarrows, Silver Elite by Danny Francis, A Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping by Sangumandana, The Knight and the Moth by Rachel Gillig, and Wild Reverence by Rebecca Ross. That is quite a lineup. That is.

Jonathan:

Right.

Mari:

I haven't even read most of those. And I was mildly concerned about that when it says to me about being on a podcast. But I haven't read most of those. I've read a lot of books, but I haven't read most of those. And I'm I would be absolutely petrified to pick because I've heard so many great things about Dyer Bound, which I haven't read. Um Sable Sorensen, Sable Sorensen was is actually a duo, if I'm not mistaken. And they were at RomanticyCon. Um and I didn't get a chance to meet them. I was sad. So I have not read Dow Dire Bound. I have not read um what's the the book that you just said that we were just talking about? Shield of Shield of Sparrows? Shield of Sparrows, which was raved about long. And I've been it's desperately on my TBR. I just ran out of TBR. I have Rose of Jeans sitting next to my bed. I just haven't gotten to it yet. So like these are I don't know. Like, can you vote more than once? I wish.

Ashley:

I mean, that's how you're gonna pick a winner. Yeah. At least they can't vote more than once.

Mari:

Yeah, yeah.

Ashley:

Because that would be, I feel, dip feel like it would be debilitating.

Mari:

Yeah, it's a hard choice. It is a difficult choice for sure. There's a lot of good, it was a lot of good books released this year, and I think there's gonna be a lot of good books released next year, which is great for us as readers. It's definitely grown like exponentially this year, and I'm so stoked about it. Yeah, same. Any other tidbits?

Kelly:

Mm-mm.

Mari:

Okay. So we're gonna go into talking about Wicked, which we we mainly want to talk about Wicked, kind of like the franchise as a whole, because the sequel to the movie is set to release November 21st, which this episode is set to release November 20th, I do believe. So basically, if you listen to this when it's released, then tomorrow you can watch Wicked the Sequel, which is Wicked for Good, is what it's called. Um so we're gonna talk about mainly the movie Wicked and a little bit about the experience at Universal, the Wicked Experience Universal, a little bit about the musical, a little bit about the book, and we all have different experiences on all of it. But just kind of a little bit of everything. The movie Wicked was released November 22nd of last year, of 2024. There are lots of synopsis, but this is a synopsis I chose. It's short and to the point. Alphabet, a young woman ridiculed for her green skin, and Gelinda, a popular girl, become friends at Shiz University in the Land of Oz. After an encounter with the wonderful Wizard of Oz, their friendship reaches a crossroads.

Ashley:

You know what? That's accurate.

Kelly:

Yeah.

Mari:

Yeah. I will say the whole thing, if you don't know, is based off of The Wizard of Oz, which is a L. Frank Baum book written in 1900. It's The Wizard of Oz. It's a whole series, which I have never actually read the the children's books. The Wizard of Oz, and the there's like a series of them. Has have has anybody read them? I didn't know it was a series.

Jonathan:

No, I I'm like super duper afraid of the Wizard of Oz.

Mari:

Kelly, have you read any of the old ones? Like the kids' books?

Kelly:

Uh no, I've read the first one.

Mari:

You've I think you've read more than any of us then, because I haven't even read the first one. Kelly wins. I knew they existed, and I they're on my list to read. And I think I only knew they existed because I really, really, really okay. I really like the Return to Oz movie that is creepy and wonderful. It's got a giant pumpkin that head that comes to life, a moose head that turns into like a chariot. What other it's got an empress or sorceress or something gonna remove her head. She's got a whole closet full of heads that she takes off and on.

Ashley:

Just chilling with some heads.

Mari:

I mean, Return to Oz has I'm trying to remember the actress's name. Farooza Bulk is plays Dorothy. She was in The Craft. The Craft, thank you. I was gonna say Trap The Craft, and then Island of Dr. Moreau. She played all those weird characters in like late 90s, early 2000s. Um but yeah, based off of that book, Gregory McGuire then did a retelling, which is Wicked Um uh The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West. And that was released in like 1995, which is earlier than I thought. I didn't read it when it was first came out, but I've read it like 20 years ago. I've only read it once, I believe. Once in English. English ones in Spanish, but it was all around the same time frame, like 20 years ago. Um, it is now a four-book series, and I've only read two of them. And there's also a prequel that just came out this year called Elfie, I believe. The original book was 26 weeks on the New York Times bestseller, and it sold five million copies. Dang. Yeah. So after that came out, which the book, Kelly, you've read the book, right? You read Wicked, and I've read Wicked. You guys have not, right? John the Nash?

Jonathan:

Have not.

Mari:

The book is interesting. I remember really, really enjoying the book. I have started to reread it literally just today, because I ran out of time. But I started to reread it. And like I said, it's the first time in like 20 years. So it'd be interesting to see what my take on it now will be versus, you know, what I thought about it then. But so far, it is much the book is much darker than I remember. Yeah. And also the book is the movie that's coming that that came out and the sequel that's coming out tomorrow, both of those are the first book. So the book was like divided into two movies. Oh, okay.

Jonathan:

Yeah, that's the kind of vibe I got out of that, out of the movie, too.

Ashley:

I mean it doesn't matter.

Kelly:

It mirrors the musical which had two acts.

Mari:

Right. So the then after the book became popular, the musical happened in 2003. The musical is based off of the book, but it does change some things also from the book. It was very well reviewed. It was nominated for 10 Tony Awards. Adina Menzel played Alphabet in the original, yeah, like run of that. And uh she won for best actress, she won a Tony for Best Actress, and then the show won for best scenic design and best costume design. Which it deserved all that. Like Kelly and I didn't see it on Broadway, but we saw it in Atlanta when it was touring, and it was it was like watching a movie, some of the special effects they did. Things were flying, things were coming out of like the sky going down, the their intermission, because you know there's it was long, so there's an intermission. The intermission, which is basically the end of the first movie, she's like flying in the middle of the stage with like her cloak billowing that turns into like the entire background of the stage. It is transformative. Was it so magical? Yeah, yeah. If ever you get the chance to see musical done, uh to see the wicked musical done, I highly recommend it. It's a good show. And then the movie, Wicked Movie, is based off of the musical, and that's the one that we're mainly talking about. That was released in 2024. Four, yeah. It received 10 nominations, the 97th Academy Awards, including Best Picture. It won for Best Costume Design and Best Production Design, and it grossed $758 million on a $150 million budget, becoming the highest-grossing Oz film, the highest-grossing musical film adaptation, and the fifth highest-grossing film of 2024. This all makes sense. It was popular.

Kelly:

Well, the the me the musical really took off and grew very, very popular over, you know, from the time it you know originated to when they had multiple touring groups doing it, as well as the Broadway show. And it there was like this whole phenomenon. I remember some people going into it on like NPR stuff, talking about how the whole friendship thing between Glinda and Alphaba, which is very different than what was in the book, that that part of the musical apparently really resonated with female audiences, and that's what kind of drove the musical to becoming increasingly more and more popular and selling out constantly, the tours selling out and everything, and eventually, you know, prompting them to make a movie.

Ashley:

Yeah. Who runs the world? Girls.

Mari:

I mean, I think that the musical, the the the the movie did a good job of portraying a lot of the vibe of the musical so far. Like we haven't seen the second half, we can't speak for the second half, but the first half I thought did a wonderful job of portraying like the magic and the otherworldliness that is Oz. Um and yet also bringing in like some very serious topics into it.

Kelly:

But not nearly as in-depth and politically topical as the book was.

Mari:

Right. Right. I the book was definitely deeper. And the book focused on a few different things. I also don't know exactly what's going to happen in the second movie, so I don't want to spoil anything. So I'm not gonna talk about, I'm gonna try and not talk about stuff that happened in the second half of the book or the second half of the musical because that's all happening in the movie that's coming out. Um, but there's definitely way more story to be told. The first movie, though, I think did a great job of setting up lots of things. Did you guys you guys didn't watch it like at the movie theater, right? It was more recently.

Jonathan:

Yeah, no, we we watched it at uh at home so we streamed it.

Mari:

So what'd you think?

Jonathan:

I so um Ashley asked me if I wanted to go to the movies to see the second part, and I said to her, I do not want to go to the movies because I do not feel comfortable emoting with a film in public. Oh wow. Um I as a child I was extremely afraid of the Wizard of Oz movie. And with this, with this movie, it was it's there, it's I'm angry about a lot of things in general right now, just like the world, the real world, yeah. Yeah. And so when I when I watched this story play out on the screen, there were a lot of um parallels.

Ashley:

Yes, there were.

Jonathan:

Um and uh it and to me it was like at some point you're just angry with with others and just kind of watching what's not just the main characters, but what's going on in the background? What are the what are the others doing? How much are the others allowing to happen? And are you are you equally as guilty? Are you complicit via silence? You know, it's like how where do these characters fit in and like what's what's really happening here? I don't like I I immediately want to be want to be angry at people for referring to Alphabet as the wicked witch. Like there's nothing wicked about her, right? Like I I immediately want to be upset at people who uh balance that with Glinda the Good, you know. I looking at the manipulation of Madame Morable and and and the the narcissistic behavior of the Words of Oz. Let me just break out on Jeff Goldblum real quick. So I saw the list. It's gonna be good. Buckle up. Jeff Jeff is giving off he's giving off Chaos Zeus slash Ragnarok grandmaster vibes. Yeah to this whole like 100%. Is is this his only character now? It's his only the only character. Like he's just let's just typecast him as this narcissistic ruler.

Mari:

I mean, maybe he has fun playing it, and at this point he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Kelly:

There comes a point when an actor is just being cast as themselves. Oh you're seeing that with Jeff, you're seeing that with Jeff Goldblum and Nicolas Cage.

Jonathan:

Why didn't you just put the bunnet down? Um sorry. Um the uh yeah, Jeff is I you know what I like about Jeff though is his his cadence and diction. Like they're almost uh musical it's a drug. You know, it's I could listen to him read a story and it doesn't uh any story that'd be entertained. Yeah, I I don't think so. The wizard didn't really uh you don't get a lot out of him except for this. What I I would love to maybe just look at the screen time for Jeff Goldblum. I'm sure it's like just a handful of minutes.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

Uh you know, it nothing nothing crazy, but it's so impactful in the story. Everybody wants his attention. You get that vibe throughout the whole thing, and you're privileged to get that attention. You get there and you realize, holy shit, it's fake. Yep. The other person who I think had very had minimal screen time, but I feel like is more impact, I think it gets glossed over and is extremely impactful in the story, Nessa Rose.

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan:

Yep. You know, uh we uh this is sort of like Anakin Darth Vader, kind of like you see him and you're like, oh, young character grows into this other thing. And that's sort of like we're seeing Nessa Rose. Uh was it was she the she's the witch of the north?

Mari:

Uh uh the east.

Kelly:

Uh she's the witch she's the witch of the east.

Mari:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

The witch of the east. Okay.

Mari:

In the Wizard of Oz movie, she's the the legs you see under the house.

Jonathan:

Yes. And in in this movie, she's the the the the opening the opening scene, right? Where it is that the house takes her out, and then you're and then it's a flashback. Is that accurate? Did I see that correctly?

Mari:

So the start of the movie, yes, is basically the start of the Wizard of Oz when Dorothy lands in Munchkin Land.

Jonathan:

And and they flash back. Okay, cool.

Ashley:

And Glenda shows up, confirms that that the wicked witch is dead, and goes on to kind of tell that story.

Jonathan:

I'm not sure if Nessa Rose is wicked.

Mari:

They never call her wicked. Nessa Rose will figure in more if it if it goes by the book, like the blended. Yeah, she will play a bigger role in the second movie.

Ashley:

But they never call her wicked in the same way they do it to Alphabet, do they?

Kelly:

Not yet. No.

Mari:

But you remember it was a it was a PR spin too. Like they had to label Elfie as as wicked because if the wizard is the best thing ever and she's opposed to the wizard, she must be bad.

Kelly:

Right.

Jonathan:

Are you saying that the wizard is like a bigly kind of person and that we have to dehumanize our counterparts in order to turn social structures against them or society against them? No. Why would I say that? I mean, I don't let me put words in anyone's mouth. My goodness. And that maybe that, yeah. This is I I think what's interesting to me is Nessa Rose didn't go to Shiz to she didn't go to Shiz to be trained as a as a witch, did she? She went to Shiz for her post-secondary education.

Kelly:

Right.

Jonathan:

As a privileged and as a privileged child. But clearly, she goes on to become a witch and has to have some sort of formal training, I would assume. I they're gonna I think people are gonna have to pick sides, and the people who are gonna have to make the most challenging choices are gonna be the characters who are most who are closest to the situation. Um and I I I struggle to think, and I and I'm sorry, the same way the same way you feel about serious Mikey Day. What's his name, Ashley? I don't know who you're talking about. The guy from who uh who invented Christmas, who played not Charlie Chaplin, Charlie Charles Dickens in that movie. I don't think the one that I thought looked like Mikey Day.

Ashley:

I have no idea what you're trying to reference.

Mari:

That actor. So this the same way I feel about that actor is what you're saying.

Jonathan:

Is the same way I feel about Ariana Grande.

Mari:

I I understand. I know you've said that before. I didn't have an opinion on Ariana Grande at all. Like I knew she was like a singer, and that's it. That's all I knew about her before her being cast in this wicked movie.

Jonathan:

And maybe she did such a good job playing Glinda that it pissed me off. Like maybe that's you didn't want to like her. Yeah, I don't like maybe like I'm so disgusted with the the the fake ass friendship.

Ashley:

The other things.

Jonathan:

Yeah, that I'm just like, ooh, maybe I I dislike Ari Ariana, if you're out there, I'm sorry. You maybe you did such a good job. You're such a fine actress here that you've managed to turn me against you in real life.

Mari:

Just because we hadn't mentioned it, the actress who plays Nessa Rose is Marissa Bode, who I think she did a good job. I will say, in addition to your Nessa Rose, I will I will raise you Peter Dinklage as Dr. Dillaman, the goat.

Jonathan:

Yes.

Mari:

Shit, was that him?

Jonathan:

Yes, it was. Yes. Amazing job. Yes, and and he's and he's the oppressed.

Mari:

Yes.

Jonathan:

I'm so upset for that goat.

Mari:

I love Peter Dinklage. Me too. So in the musical and in the movie, Alphaba is kind of ostracized because she's different and the Throps, you know, her family kind of wants to keep up appearances. They have, you know, it's he's the dad's the governor. You know, there there are there are appearances that need to be kept up. In the book, it's a little darker. In the book, uh, the dad is a like a minister, basically, like a preacher. And the day the day that that Alphabet's mom goes into labor, the he's like, no, this is not convenient for me. I've got these this this sermon to do. This isn't happening today, and leaves her. It's dark. And they're like God, do you can say it? The the way that that Alphabet is treated as a baby in the book, I'm sure that in the musical and in the movie, it probably would have been the same way, but they're not going to go that dark or that deep into it. But it's the idea like the only person that loved Alphabet growing up was the nanny and Nessa Rose. That's all she had.

Jonathan:

And it's it's made clear in this movie too, at the beginning, and tell me if it's the same in the in the book and in the in the musical that Shiz, the the journey to Shiz is about Nessa Rose. 100%. Okay. And it's and and Elphobus sent as almost as a as a caretaker or a secondary.

Mari:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan:

And she's she's just taken advantage of when she arrives.

Mari:

Yeah, well, I mean, Madame Marble sees what's happening and decides that she needs to stay, which Michelle Yeo did an amazing job in that role as well. But Michelle Yeo does well in everything I've ever seen.

Jonathan:

In everything that she touches. Yeah. What was she in Star Trek?

Mari:

Sheng Chi, Couching Tragor, Hin Dragon, everything everywhere, all at one point.

Ashley:

The Ten Rings, Shang Chi.

Jonathan:

Sheng Chi. The Ten Rings. That's probably what's probably where I remember her most from.

Ashley:

She's done very many prolific things. I don't mean to diminish what she's done.

Jonathan:

Did she do Crazy Rich Asians?

Kelly:

Uh yes. And before all this, she was a world-renowned Hong Kong action movie star.

Mari:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

Interesting. I want to I'd like to see how I feel like her character, she's like the hands. She's boots on the ground. She's the she's like, let's say, a certain person who speaks on behalf of yeah, of of the narcissist. Yeah. Yeah. She's the she's that buffer, that layer between, she's a safety layer on pudding that's been left out too long, keeping the public away from and maybe not directly, keeping the students or the the trainees away.

Mari:

As it was, I think in a way she was a bit of a spy for the wizard.

Ashley:

I was gonna say she was the sorcerer, like in that she was trying to find the answer that the wizard needed and hope. She was she just did she found someone that was too smart. She it the Elphaba, no, it wasn't even the power. They needed the power. What they didn't need was the brain that Alphabet came along with. They needed the gullibility and the the needing to be liked. That was Glinda.

Jonathan:

They needed some they need, yeah, exactly. That's what it was. They needed somebody who was, and so I didn't feel like I definitely struggled with Glinda as a as a character. I I thought of her as like just shallow, privileged. Okay. I just she was definitely craving popularity, but I didn't see her as a rival, and I didn't see her, I don't see her arc as transformative. I s right now I see her as a coward.

Mari:

I there's a lot more that will happen to her in the second book, second, second movie, second part. There's gonna be more to her story.

Jonathan:

Okay. Okay.

Ashley:

The first enemy is not always the last enemy. Yeah.

Jonathan:

Okay. I'm I I'm not sure what to make out of Fierro. I don't see it as a love as a as a love triangle. I think he's in love with Alphabet.

Mari:

So Fierro, it's interesting. In the and like I said, it's been 20 years since I read the book. So Kelly rem correct me if you remember. I thought the the Prince Fierro role in the book, he was blue.

Kelly:

Yes.

Mari:

Yeah. The people like his where he's from, the land or whatever, they're blue. But they didn't make him blue, I don't think, in the musical, from what I remember.

Ashley:

No.

Mari:

Uh and so they adapted that into the movie where he's not blue. Which I think adds a little bit of like camaraderie between them. That, you know, they're like, oh, they're the only like weirdly colored people, where everyone else is like, I guess a standard human skin tone, and then you have like a big thing.

Kelly:

Well they call him dark skinned with blue diamonds. Like tattoos. Right.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Kelly:

Interesting.

Mari:

I thought he did a good job with the the dancing and stuff, especially like in the library where he's dancing on the books and everything. I thought that was really well done.

Jonathan:

So yeah. I'm gonna be interested to see how his his story, like what his choices are next. And then the last person I'm concerned about is Bach, the the the boy who is crushing super hard on Glinda but was steered towards Nessa Rose. Like it really, I don't know if it like it was just a f a fleeting moment on screen when he when they were saying goodbye and she was headed off to the Emerald City, and and he and she said, I'm gonna get rid of the gh for Dr. Dilamond. Um and I'll now just be known as Glinda instead of Gulinda. And he like fanboyed over her so hard. And the camera cut to Narose. And I think right there she was like, Yeah. That's and that that look said, All right, buddy. Yeah, I see, I see, I see your true colors, and I see like I was just I'm just status to you. I'm a I'm a way to climb the this the ladder, the social, the social ladder, and I'm not gonna be used that way. I'm I'm real angry in this in this case. So I if you told me that if you told me that Nessarose has a a darker side, doesn't ex or or is is manipulated by Madame Marble and learned some learned some magic, but it has a dark, has has her own nefarious plan. Like I'm oh yeah, I'm gonna get even. I'm gonna show you all. I I I could see that. Uh Fiero, if you tell me he has a hard time choosing sides or or chooses a side and it's not popular, but his status keeps him alive, I would believe that. Outside of that, I'm I'm really interested to see how you can see how they're the propaganda that's that's that's being spin machined. Yeah. But people who are close to Alphaba, they have to they have to know you know who this person is.

Mari:

But what are you gonna do? I mean, you have to be willing to speak up, and that's the thing. Elfie is the one that's willing to speak up.

Jonathan:

Yeah. Well, when she found her voice, she found the shit out of that voice.

Mari:

So the actress who plays Alphabet is Cynthia Arrivo, which I don't think I had I know she's done some movies, but I hadn't seen her in any movies. But I know she's got a really good reputation on like like musicals and plays. I thought she did a really good job as playing Alphabet. Because I was really worried on who was gonna play Alphaba because you gotta be able to emote a lot. Um I mean, and Dina Menzel kind of set that bar really high, too. That was my favorite. Like I love Adina, and I think Cynthia did a really good job. I'm really am looking forward to how they're gonna portray the rest of this story in the second movie, and it's hard to hard it's hard to talk about it without talking about everything that's gonna happen, but there's a lot that's gonna happen, and I'm curious to see how they're gonna bring that together.

Ashley:

It's impressive too that they're releasing them a year apart. Like they've worked really hard to to close those gaps so that you know it's fresh and available and and whatnot for everyone. I didn't expect them to release the second one literally. I knew that they had filmed it back to back, but I didn't think they were gonna release them back to back like that. That's almost unheard of.

Mari:

I think I may be misremembering, but I thought at the end of the first movie it said the release date for the second movie.

Ashley:

They might have. I think they planned to be still impressive.

Mari:

Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's I think they almost filmed it all concurrently. Like I think they did a lot of stuff at the same time.

Ashley:

Yeah. No, they did. They definitely filmed it back to back and they were transparent about it at some point immediately after the first movie. But it's to me, it's still just astounding that they accomplished accomplished these two things in you know, 365 days. Usually, you know, industries will milk it if nothing else.

Mari:

And they're they'll wait to see if the first one's gonna be good or get their money back before they put money into the rest of it or a sequel.

Ashley:

So no, I think they knew.

Mari:

Yeah.

Ashley:

There's a lot of big names tied to this. That's true. And you know, I think the the the musical itself is such a a cult classic in and of itself. I had not seen the play, and I was moved by the movie. So I think that says a lot, you know, that they were they I think they just they had that feeling.

Jonathan:

Well, the the formula has changed. It used to be build all these things to support the movie. Now the movies the movie becomes step one. All right, we have the movie, we have the story. Now let's bring people to the experience. And that's like that's been a model that um that Disney's been perfecting and that Universal has been working on too. And and I so I I think that even with there's so many facets to this story that it's I I th I think of the movies as uh a stage in in the experience like a step uh in the experience, but not necessarily the end goal.

Mari:

Yeah. So Universal did their wicked experience, which is located on the Universal Studios side at Universal in Orlando. Um is it in California as well, Kelly? Do you remember?

Kelly:

I don't know.

Mari:

Hmm. Well, I know it's in Florida, in Orlando. We've all done it. So it's basically like this walkthrough experience where actually, before you even get into the experience, there's a little food stand outside. You can get it your little Oz drink with your green glitter in it. Um which I did, and it was good. It was worth worth worth it. Um and then inside they had like different costumes and things from the movie. From the movie, yeah. Yeah, that you could really like get a good look at it, kind of see what it looked like in real life, a little feel for the the characters, and then they had like different things, prop, not props, but like merchandising from the movie that you could buy. I thought that was a fun little walkthrough experience. I mean, you don't it's all part of your regular ticketed park thing. You don't have to like pay anything extra to go in. But if you're in the park and you at all like Wicked, uh if you're going to Universal, then plan to do the experience for sure.

Jonathan:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you go into the Experience Center, does it it takes us, if I recall, it takes us through the journey, like through Shiz and then through okay, and you're in the like you can step onto the like the controls of the of the I want to say the mask, yeah, the wizard face thing. And and it's it's it's a story, they tell the story as you go through the gift shop.

Mari:

Yeah, and you end up in Oz. Like that Oz is like the the very end, yeah. It takes you from Shiz to Oz, absolutely. Like it even has like a little 3D replica model of of the train that took them to Oz. Um and for anyone who doesn't know, when they get to Oz and they there's the whole like show that tells you the backstory of the of the grimoire and like of the wizard came, like Adina Menzel, and I cannot remember the name of the actress who played the original Glenn. Yes, they were like the two uh two characters in there who would like left the prophecy about the the grimoire. I don't think I knew they were gonna be in there when I first surprised. Yeah.

Ashley:

I think there were rumors about it, but it was very unconfirmed and like nobody knew in what capacity.

Mari:

Yeah.

Ashley:

But it was a delightful surprise.

Mari:

Anything else anybody else wants to bring up before we come to our final question?

Kelly:

I think one of the things that I didn't like about the movie is that they changed some of the musical numbers somewhat the original Broadway musical numbers. And I would say that I don't necessarily like soundtrack for the movie compared to the music of the Broadway music. I think the Broadway musical numbers are better. Maybe it's just because that's what I was exposed to first.

Mari:

So here's the question, and it may be a different answer for the book versus the musical versus the movie. So feel free to give answers for whatever version or all of those versions that you want. Is it a kissing story? Not everybody go it first.

Kelly:

I mean, I don't think you can judge it based on the first movie.

Mari:

Yeah, because it's half a story. I think I agree.

Jonathan:

I agree. I I I don't have an answer and so if I if I were to say based on the first one, no, but maybe we need this to be a to be continued and we'll answer this after the second one. Yeah, I would like that. Because that's like I'm I'm not sold out on this yet.

Ashley:

I I want to see the second one, but because we would have the answer in the book, right? In the whole book, yes. Yeah, in the whole first book, right?

Kelly:

Right.

Mari:

Okay. So I agree. I think we should hold off. It's like you know half a story right now, basically. Right. Stopped halfway through the book. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's a good idea. Anything else about any of the wicked stuff that we want to talk about before I wrap it up?

Ashley:

I think you guys did a good a great job. All right. Analyzing, going through the stuff, relating it to real time events.

Mari:

Events, real life, yeah.

Ashley:

I was I was trying to find a word.

Mari:

Events is accurate.

Jonathan:

We call it depression.

Mari:

Yeah, anxiety, depression. Yay. Everything is fine. This is fine. This is fine. All fine.

Jonathan:

Just that that meme. If you're if you are sad and depressed, tell somebody. Speak out.

Mari:

Yeah, talk to someone, reach out, absolutely.

Jonathan:

And check in on your friends.

Mari:

Yep. Yep. All right. So wrapping it up, thanks for listening to us on Swords and Soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate review, and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us and lets us know what you're enjoying and want more of. Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, or Goodreads at Of Swords and Soulmates. Check us out on our website of Swordsandsoulmates.com. If you'd like to offer a suggestion for a future episode, book, or topic, feel free to reach out to us or DM us on any of those options. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode and or get chapter by chapter interaction, join our Fable app book club by searching for the Of Swords and Soulmates book club. And last but not least, we hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode when we will be talking about the twenty twenty-five Guillermo del Toro release Frankenstein.

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Mari

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Ashley

Co-host
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Jonathan

Co-host
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Kelly

Co-host

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