Of Swords and Soulmates
Is this a kissing book? Of Swords and Soulmates features two couples (and sometimes more), with varying reading preferences and experiences, as they read, listen, and sometimes watch romantasy stories and discuss plot, fantasy elements, romance, spice, theories, and more. Join us for our non-expert opinions as we discuss, argue, rave, rant, and hopefully entertain. We may just help you find your next reading obsession or at least contribute to that TBR list!
Of Swords and Soulmates
"Onyx Storm" - Dragons, Lies, and the War Within
When Rebecca Yarros released Onyx Storm, the third installment in her Empyrean series, fans dropped everything to immerse themselves in Violet's continuing journey. Our podcast hosts were no exception – taking time off work, planning reading parties (thwarted by actual storms), and devouring the book in mere hours.
The conversation around this book reveals the fascinating dichotomy in how our hosts approach fantasy romance. We debate pure entertainment value and emotional impact versus technical criteria regarding world-building consistency and character development. This tension between "enjoyable escapism" and "cohesive fantasy craftsmanship" mirrors broader debates within the romantasy community.
Particularly compelling is how Yarros expands her magical system, introducing the Irids and revealing more about the balance of powers. The hosts passionately debate whether these elements feel organic or retrofitted, with one describing the book as "building the ship as she flies it." Meanwhile, the romantic relationship between Violet and Xaden sparks heated discussion about communication issues.
Beyond the story itself, the hosts tackle the concerning trend of romantasy authors delaying publications due to mental health concerns. They question whether fan expectations have become toxic, whether publishing demands are unsustainable, or if the multi-faceted role of modern authors (writer, marketer, social media personality) creates impossible pressure. As we await the next installment, expected around 2027, one thing remains clear – despite their critiques, there is anticipation for what comes next in this addictive series.
Links from the News Segment and Show:
- The Fable reading app now has merchandise
- Owlcrate is doing a special edition of Legends & Lattes and the sequel Bookshops & Bonedust
- Instagram Post
- Available to general purchase 04/24 and will be $69.99
- Brigands & Breadknives, third book in the Legends & Lattes series comes out on 11/11/25
- Owlcrate is doing a special edition of the Emily Wilde series by Heather Fawcett
- $104.99 available to general purchase 04/03/25
- Abigail Owen and Kait Ballenger at New Romantics bookstore in Orlando on 03/25
- Graphic novel adaptation coming of the Empyrean series.
- Several romantasy authors have delayed/pushed back book releases due to mental health concerns. SJM, Yarros, Caggiano, Parker among them. What is going on?
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Goodreads - http://www.goodreads.com/ofswordsandsoulmates
Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants. The hosts make no claim to be literary experts and their opinions are exactly that opinions. All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and is being used under the fair use doctrine.
Mari:Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch and discuss romanticist stories. I'm one of your hosts, mari, and with me I have Kelly.
Kelly:Hey everyone, it's Kelly. We also have Ashley.
Ashley:Hey guys, it's Ashley. We also have Jonathan.
Jonathan:What's good, it's JP. The caboose is loose Oof.
Mari:And apparently caffeinated. Today we're going to be discussing Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yaros, but first, as always, we have some news to go over, some tidbits. I tried to condense it, but there's just a lot going on, so we're going to do the best we can.
Mari:it's been a while since we all talked it feels, like so much, has hit the deck yeah, first thing I have is that the fable reading app now has some limited edition merch that they have available that you can buy and then it ships in april. There's like t-shirts and like hoodie sweatshirt things and like canvas totes, so those are kind of cute they're. I mean they have the fable logo on them, but they're like generic reading stuff, like there's one going on memory I think it's got a picture of like a 1950s illustrated looking cat reading a book and it says live dangerously, read a book.
Jonathan:I like the one that says carrying my emotional baggage.
Ashley:And it's a tote.
Jonathan:Yeah, it's a tote, it's just books. The designs look pretty. They're very interesting.
Mari:The designs look pretty. They're very interesting. It looks like 70s, like even the fonts on there, the colorways using like oranges and more of those lighter blues and yellows. It almost looks like a retro kids book, like an illustrated kids book kind of vibe. Right, yeah, I think so too, but they're cute. I don't know if they're going to be doing more after this. It probably depends on how well it goes, but I thought they were neat.
Mari:Next thing is Owlcrate has also been very busy. Owlcrate is doing a special edition of like a special edition print that they do of Legends and Lattes and Bookshops and Bone Dust. It's going to be available to the general public to purchase april 24th and it's going to be 69.99. It's got the usual owl crate stuff. It's like beautiful slip cover or dust covers, reversible, you know, illustrated, and the edges very. It's very pretty and it's a different bit of bit of a different color wave than their other, like the other special edition legends and lattes that were other companies did.
Mari:So the downside of that is there's a third book coming out in that series this year. Yeah, november 11th, riggins and bread knives is coming out, which it's a sequel. It's basically one of the main characters from the prequel book, the second book that came out, the Bookshops and Bone Doves, the bookshop owner. It's kind of her going off and doing something afterwards, so it seems like it'd be a fun, fun little read. Of course I'm going to read it. I like the other two. I really really like the paperback, illustrated paperback version of these books and I like the other two. I really really like the paperback, illustrated paperback version of these books and I have the first two in paperback and this third one doesn't look like it's going to be available in paperback. They're going straight to hardcovers, so we'll see.
Ashley:Yeah, they're killing us in all these hardcovers, man. Yeah.
Mari:Well and like consistency. If you have a series, I want to be able to buy that series in the same format. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
Jonathan:I think somebody has to raise the bar on some of the designs. I think what's happening is it's trickling down into your standard books. We were at Sam's Club over the weekend and there was Allie Hazelwood's um deep end. Is that what it's called?
Mari:Yeah, there's a special edition version of that in there.
Jonathan:I mean, even just the paperback has like pretty cool edges on it, and if that's becoming the norm, they're training me to now expect that fourth side of the book or fifth and sixth side of the books. Uh, like the edges are now going to be adorned, and so I don't know if it's.
Ashley:Expectations are high yeah.
Mari:Oh yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, if the technology exists to do that, then yeah, maybe more authors, more publishers need to do it.
Jonathan:I buy books based on looks. That's fable. If you're listening, put that on a shirt. That's fable. If you're listening, put that on a shirt. That's the truth.
Ashley:I do judge a book by its cover.
Jonathan:Yeah, oh, there you go, or it's sprayed edges.
Ashley:Yeah, I judge a book by its sprayed edges. Oh, there you go. That's the one I. What a time to be alive.
Mari:I know I will pay attention to a book if it's got a pretty version and it'll like, go onto my tbr and go, probably, bump up into my tbr so I can think you know, try and read it before so I can make a decision if I want the the pretty version. But I'm trying. We'll see how well I succeed. This year. I'm trying not to buy a pretty version of a book that I haven't read, because I gotta it's got to be more than pretty cover. I gotta want to keep it on the bookshelf because it's gotta have substance. Yeah, space, space.
Jonathan:Um, limitations do exist yeah, not me, I'm just.
Ashley:I'm a whore for pretty colors that should also be in a book, yeah, or on a shirt.
Mari:I'm a whore for pretty colors the other thing that al crate is doing is a special edition of the emily wilde series by Heather Fawcett and they might get me on these, because I do love this series a lot and these special editions look like the old-timey leather-bound books, like when you put them on the edge. Yes, yes. So those are going to be available for general purchase April 3rd 2025. And it's all three books for $104.99.
Ashley:I mean I've spent stupider money on worse things.
Mari:They look very ornate. I have heard people who go book shopping in other countries, whether it's any country other than the US or another language or whatever. A lot of other countries, especially European countries particularly. You'll go into a bookstore and tons of the regular books are in a pretty version. I am trying to learn to speak Italian, but I also bought the Italian version of Olivia Atwar's. But I also bought the Italian version of Olivia Atwar's Half a Soul because it is gorgeous and I'm like, okay, I bought it because it's pretty, it's in Italian. I've loved it in English. Now I got to make myself read it in Italian. It may take me five years, but it's just so much prettier than so many of the US versions, so many of these fantasy and romance and romancy books are. We also have that.
Mari:Abigail Owen, who wrote Games, God's Play that we met at the Romancy Con, is going to be having a chat with Kate Bellinger at the New Romantics Bookstore in Orlando on March 2025. No, March 25th of 2025. My shorthand, I confused myself. Tickets are $20 and that ticket will include the book by Kate Bellinger, Original Sinner. If you are a fan of either of these authors, I know that they're going to have a. I think they're doing some touring stuff together, because I thought I saw that later in the year that both of them together are going to be. It was either in Chicago or New York, so depending on where you are in the country, I would say, look them up If you're interested in being a part of that.
Ashley:I was going to say I don't know if anybody works harder than Abigail. Oh my gosh, that lady is always on the move.
Jonathan:Yeah, honestly, I think, um, abigail Owen is really good at like if the term, like you know, work in the circuit kind of thing maybe is a thing, and like this, a full-on book tour, like living her best author life yeah, I also think ali hazelwood is doing a good job oh is she.
Ashley:I guess maybe I don't follow her on the social and juliet cross.
Jonathan:Juliet cross all over the place. It's only a group of like six authors that that I've just kind of been following, you know. With all that said, I think it's more of a I'm zoomed in yeah right, your algorithm is algorithmic yeah, and so there's.
Jonathan:I don't know if it's commonplace or uncommon, but the ones that I'm seeing or that I'm exposed to seem to be all over the place. I do want to end up in the same place as hannah nicole mayer at some point not creepy oh, it's like creepy for juliet cross got it yeah, exactly, yeah, there's a few uh that I'd like to like I want to have your shot with hannah on.
Jonathan:Yeah, we did. We missed that one because we went to go meet Josh Gad instead for his book. I think I want to go on Tuesday. Can we go on Tuesday, best friend?
Ashley:I can't.
Jonathan:I might. I'm not even going to lie.
Ashley:I wouldn't be mad at you. Be free, little bird, bring me back a present.
Jonathan:I prefer a little serpent.
Mari:So across the street from the new romantics, where they're this is being held, is the salty donut, so you can always bring back a yummy donut treat. Yes, fucking better, bring me back and they have like the best chocolate sheet cake, donut period end of story I will say, in addition to them doing all these like tours and things.
Mari:So I think they're also very prolific. Like abigail owen is really prolific, you know, julia cross, is is really prolific. Another one that comes to mind that doesn't do a lot of tours and things but is is heavy on social media and stuff is katie roberts. Like they just write so many books. Like you know, something's got to stick, something's got to work for you. If you have all these books being published, published, you know you're going to make it hit with somebody. All right, we also have that. There is a graphic novel adaptation coming out of Rebecca Yarris' Imperian series. It's being done by. I talked to you about this earlier today.
Ashley:Why are you giving me and it's on the chat group the betrayal Like bitch. Why didn't you tell me?
Mari:I said it out loud and then I promptly forwarded it to the group. Yep, so it's going to be 10 speed. Graphic. Pet piatkas and entangled publishing are doing a six book deal for the first three empyrean books, so it's going to be two graphic novels per book is what it sounds like. I know that that on the article that talked about it, um, where rebecca yarls announced it, they hadn't announced, like, who the artists and stuff are going to be yet. So I don't, we don't know who's going to be doing drawing, who's going to be doing inking. I don't think we know any of those details.
Mari:Yet it's an interesting announcement, especially knowing that she was just in california visiting the production studio it makes me think that maybe the like visual, visual mode of storytelling with the graphic novels is being used to help them move along the the tv show you know what I mean.
Ashley:I was gonna say I think it. They at least need to do it in some kind of concert with each other because, they don't want conflicting, not images, but like likenesses, if that makes sense, yeah, yeah we'll see.
Mari:I'm not a huge graphic novel um person. I tend to like if I, if I read graphic novels, if I like graphic novels, I like to read them once it's a complete story as opposed to like um, you know, specific edition by edition, just because I have a harder time retaining a story when I'm told such a small portion of it, you know. But there's some graphic novels out there that are good, that I've enjoyed, so we'll see. I I'll probably pick it up when it comes out.
Ashley:Yeah, I think it's definitely going to be an interesting concept because so much is actually happening in these books. But yeah, it's not my area of expertise either.
Mari:Kelly, do you think it'll be a good thing?
Kelly:I don't know. Graphic novels are always a risky move. When you put a graphic novel, you know, adapt a graphic novel from a book because it's like making a movie. There's a lot of stuff that's going to be cut out and condensed and stuff like that Lots of movies and stuff that have been adapted into graphic novels. Usually the graphic novels don't do as well. They're usually not very well liked by fans of the originals.
Mari:Yeah.
Kelly:And that's why a lot of times graphic novels tell a story that's set in the same universe or something like that, rather than focus back on the main story and, you know, readapt or adapt the main story for a graphic novel. So it's kind of a risky move but I'm sure, given the fan base, I'm sure it will sell well yeah right, yeah, we're sorry.
Mari:I remember. I remember after Firefly TV show was canceled, where they did the graphic novel, that was like the origin stories of the main characters, and I thought that was a really good use of like a graphic novel for a story.
Jonathan:I think if it were like and so I'm in no position to make a decision for Mother, but I think if she called me up, she were like and so I'm in no position to make a decision for mother, but I think if she, if she called me up, she's like hey, jp, what do you think we should do here? I would say not this. Instead, give us a authorized, a compendium. Give us um more background into the characters, more background into the characters. Um, you know, that's an easy, you can spitball some things. You don't have the right stories, but I mean how many?
Mari:there's a lot of characters that we just don't have solid background on yeah, but I wonder, like the hard thing about doing a compendium or like an encyclopedia kind of thing is there's still several more books to be told and there's still things probably being hidden about the characters. Yeah, yeah, that would be difficult to write in a compendium without giving stuff away, or after all, the rest of the books are published, then you go back and the compendium's outdated.
Jonathan:You see what I mean yeah, yeah, I also think like. So I know I do think she's building the ship as as she flies it, so we can get as we get into it. I think she's bringing it 100 oh, she says she's a plotter interesting as we get into it, I'll I'll point, I'll point out some things that, uh, I notice I don't want to put the client before the horse, all right.
Mari:Last little bit of news, then. It's kind of another little combination of things. Several Romanesie authors have delayed or pushed back book releases this year because of mental health and physical health concerns, and it got me thinking. Maybe we can discuss for a little bit as a fandom, as a Romanesie fantasy romance fandom. Maybe we can discuss for a little bit like as a fandom, as a fantasy romance fandom, like are we toxic? Are we asking for too much? Is the publishing industry, you know, toxic with them? Is it like are these authors expected to put on too many hats and do too much? Like it's not, like they could just write a book and that's it they have to like then go out and do PR stuff and do social media and sell this stuff. Let me tell you what got me thinking about it and then we can go back to the question.
Mari:So, rebecca Yaros, she has already said that book four is not going to be coming soon. We know that she's going to take a bigger break between them, because she wrote those first three books so fast that it was just too much for her. I was reading somewhere that said it was like a 2027 potential release date, but then, when I tried to verify that. Everything she said was that she wouldn't give a release date and I think she wasn't even expected to start writing the fourth book until after this summer. So it's going to be a bit. And then, of course, sarah J Maas has nothing coming Like up through 2026. There's nothing new being released for her, ak Kajiano, who we just read the Villains of Virtue series. She had to reshuffle some of her 2025. Releases due to. Like On her quote, a little mental breakdown at the end of 2024.
Mari:Is how she worded it. Sarah A Parker, at the end of 2024. It's how she worded it. Um, sarah a parker, who wrote the when the moon hatched has released, has pushed back the release of the sequel to that, the ballad of falling dragons. Instead of being october of this year, it's going to be released february of next year. So what do we think?
Jonathan:I don't think we're toxic. I think a lot of it, so the it could be. The publishing industry itself is toxic, not that we're. I don't think it's us that's toxic.
Ashley:No, it's the fandom. It's very much like a pop culture kind of response, and so I don't think this is just a Rebecca problem. I think the toxicity and it feels like a very intense word, so I see why you're reluctant to use it, but we heard it at the panels when we went to RomanticyCon last fall, where there's this overwhelming expectation for writers to just force feed out these books, and part of that is so that they can afford their own lifestyles, right. But someone like Abigail Owen, juliet Cross while now are bigger-ish names a year or two, and I think a lot of what they're doing is their own promotions on top of that.
Kelly:So they're writing, they're editing, there's a lot of things at play with this. It's not just the fans, it's not just the publishing, it's a combination of both. The publishing industry has been in a slump for a long time and was dying. Bookstores were dying. Covid gave them a pause because everyone started reading again. Now bookstores didn't really benefit so much from that as much as the publishing industry did. But who really benefited were those independent authors that were just pushing out the self publishing books because so many people were just staying home and just reading everything.
Kelly:So self publishing on Kindle, which was already taking off, just kind of accelerated during COVID. So now you have this rise of a new genre essentially which it's not new, but you essentially have this rise of this genre all of a sudden that's just selling like hotcakes. So you have publishers desperate to make money while they can and try and grow this genre. So they're putting pressure on these authors to turn out books right and the authors obviously want to make money. But I think the publishing industry is taking advantage of a lot of these authors, because these authors had self-published before, so they really didn't make much money at all and these publishers went to them and offered them a much better deal than if they continued to self-publish, but still probably not as a good deal as an author would have gotten, especially an author that's selling as well as Sarah J Maas probably would have gotten before COVID, you know, or even in the early 2000s.
Kelly:So it's a combination of that. And then you have a fan base that anytime something is really popular, there's always going to be a rabid fan base. So it's a combination of all of these things. You know the publishers trying to grow what they have, trying to make money, trying to push the authors and take advantage of them. Authors wanting to sell books, because authors obviously want their books to sell. They want people to read them, and so they're going to try and put out as many books as they can while they can. So you have the authors doing everything they can and pushing themselves, and then the fans just kind of antagonizing the whole process. So it's like a nice little closed negative feedback loop where everything is feeding on itself, making it worse for everyone.
Mari:I, every time I get a chance to do any sort of like posts on these people's social media not that I believe that I'm actually talking to very many or any of them, but any, any authors or whatever they go through, that stuff I always post on their, on their, on their feed or whatever. When they say stuff like that, that like they need to take care of themselves, and whenever they release whatever they're going to release, we'll read it. The people who want to read their stuff will read it whenever they they publish it like. It's not. Like if it doesn't get published this year, it goes bad, has to be thrown away. You know what I mean. Like you write it, we'll read it. All right, so we chose to read onyx storm um, because we'd all, we all read it. Like. We read the first two books. Of course, we're going to read the third one.
Ashley:When it came out, it was published I was gonna say choose feels very strong. There was no choice for me the book, the book chose us yeah, the book chose us.
Mari:Um, if only there were dragons choosing us. I'm just saying um, yeah, published january 21st 2025. Um, we're going to be talking spoilers for, like all, all the Empyrean series books we're not going to be able to contain ourselves so, yes, if you've not read, I don't know why you would have read the third book and not the first two. But if that's the case, fyi, go back and read the first two, because it'll all make more sense our strong opinion right, right, um, okay, so let me read the synopsis and then we'll get into it.
Mari:After nearly 18 months at basquiat war college, violet soaringale knows there's no more time for lessons, no more time for uncertainty, because the battle has truly begun and, with enemies closing in from outside their walls and within their ranks, it's impossible to know who to trust. Narvalet must journey beyond the failing Orishian wards to seek allies from unfamiliar lands to stand with Navarre. The trip will test every bit of her wit, luck and strength, but she will do anything to save what she loves, her dragons, her family, her home and him, even if it means keeping a secret so big it could destroy everything. They need an army, they need power, they need magic and they need the one thing. Only violet can find the truth. But a storm is coming and not everyone can survive its wrath.
Ashley:I just got chills. It's just a book, ashley like calm down it's your emotional baggage.
Mari:Oh, what do we think of overall rating? Guys, here's the thing.
Ashley:There's this trend on tiktok right now and it's like I said, it was five stars. I didn't say it was a literary masterpiece, but while there are books that are both of these things, I have zero complaints about this book. I'm going to read it again. I don't even need to rate it a four to know what, down the line that you know my top tier level is that I'm going to. I'm going to read it. We're going to gonna read all three of these books again, because by the time the fourth one comes out right, we're all gonna need a refresher, refresher yeah, there we go.
Ashley:This was a five for me. I was entertained. We, my husband and I, collectively sat in our places in our, took off work the day of release and read a book.
Jonathan:In all fairness, we didn't take off because of that book. We took off because I thought I was going to meet Hannah Nicole Mayer that day.
Ashley:Oh yeah, yes, it was just a bonus that it all happened on the same Tuesday. We had all of our schedules messed up, but that's literally what we did for six. What six hours? Yeah, six hours. We read, and he finished before I did so this is. This is not a literary masterpiece by any means, like we are not talking about anything new, but it was a five star.
Mari:So my story for the day it came out is I had taken off work because I knew. And then the Summer Reading Club, summer Reading Creations Club, summer and Rebecca, who've been on this podcast, were like, hey, let's all get together and like, have a sleepover slash, read over and just get together and read it. So we were going to get together. We had food, ordered cupcakes, I bought decorations, it was all going to be here, we have our air mattresses, we're just going to read, just sit together and read. And then there was a southern storm and everything. The roads were closed and their kids schools were closed so they had to stay home. So we all had to read it home alone. So I read it.
Mari:That first day too, kelly was working, um, but yeah, I got it, I read it, it was good, which is why because I read it so fast, that's why I had to reread it for today's podcast, because there were things, things I missed for sure. But yeah, for me, same, it was a five star. It was a fun time. It made me feel things, I laughed, I was sad, I was surprised at the twists, it made me think and I'm going to read the next one. So I don't know what else anyone would want out of a book of this genre and a book of this. You know fun fantasy story. Well, yeah, fun, fun being a relative a uh, a fun ride. Overall, I put.
Jonathan:That was five stars for me it's gonna get the five star treatment. I think for me as well, but with the and the same thing that, um, it was not a masterpiece. It's the. She's clearly building the ship as she flies it. This is an appeasement book. It's not a. It's not a book, it's. It's, it's filler, it's fluff, it's world building, it's fluff, how dare you? Oh it's, it's big, big fluff, absolutely not big fluff?
Mari:It's absolutely not fluff.
Jonathan:If, if we turn the volume up.
Ashley:Let him have his opinion.
Jonathan:If we turn the volume up on the podcast and she hears it as we drive by her house, we can impact the story. I fully believe that, um, but it was also validating because, like for for a year, I've been saying if it's in print, it's in play, and she proved it. She basically just backed it all up and walked everything she had publicly spoken about back I shouldn't say everything, but a lot of things that she Everything is extreme A lot of things that she told her fan base that she was ruling out, she walked it back in the book. So it was validating to see if it's been printed in a book, it's actively in play and stands as a theory to explore. Yeah, so five stars, but again, it's keeping me quiet, for I don't know if it'll keep me quiet for two years, but it'll keep me quiet for six months.
Mari:Kelly, what do you think?
Kelly:I gave this book a three and a half. I think it advanced the plot a lot more. It set up things a lot more. So this is I mean you're right. It's basically doing some additional world building, doing some piece moving on the board so that we can get closer to whatever the end goal is for the story arc. So I enjoyed that a little bit more. There was still a lot of the same crap that just annoys me with these books, which is if two people would just sit down and fucking talk to each other, you know honestly, then this book would have been four chapters.
Ashley:They're just babies.
Jonathan:The whole series could have been one if it would have just been a scribe.
Mari:You know what?
Kelly:So, I appreciate that we have some plot development, we have world building, we have pieces being moved around, but it just still to me it did not grab me, it didn't get me as interested in this world. I mean, honestly, I'm really only reading the Imperium series because of the podcast. I wouldn't have read the second one or the third one.
Jonathan:You know what they say happy podcast, happy life.
Mari:You know what? I would add, kelly, to what you said as far as, like, if two people would just get together and have a conversation or whatever, I would expand that and I would say, like, add the dragons as people, because there's so many times where I'm just like the dragons have known this stuff and they could have prevented so much if they would just talk to their writers.
Kelly:Not even everybody just said hey, here's the deal on the other seventh group of dragons, and here's the deal on what the dragons really think about, what's going on. And here's the all of this would have been solved All of this.
Mari:Yeah, yeah, I agree. But you know, I wonder how much of that is Rebecca Yarrow's background in writing, as a romance author. And I don't, I'm not a huge I wouldn't say I'm a huge aficionado of romance books. I don't, I don't know like the big staple people in the romance genres, but I do know that in the romance books I've read the miscommunication trope is huge in the romance genre, like there are entire stories that wouldn't happen if the miscommunication miscommunication.
Mari:Trope didn't exist not like right in the midst of a war a propaganda war?
Ashley:no, like yeah. So I mean not agreed that if, if there were better communication, then but and I think zayden said something to this effect, though in and forgive me because I don't remember which book at all, but he was like I'm never going to be able to tell you 100 like this. We're in war, right. So there are always going to be some level of secrets, and so I think that's where we are with the dragons. What pisses me off about the dragons is that this is the Empyrean series and I am still lacking information about the Empyrean. I don't mind them keeping it from the humans in the book, but outside of the book we need answers. But we're're gonna put that aside for right now to be determined.
Ashley:We're gonna pick on that one later. But I mean I I can understand the dragons not divulging their secrets to these. You know, inferior, complicated emotion run humans. I think there's depth to coda melgrin's dragon, I think. I think coda's gonna surprise us all, I don't know when I hope so but I think that motherfucker is gonna come back and surprise us all.
Ashley:I haven't made a decision about melgrin just because we haven't really been exposed to him too, too much, but I mean so, yeah, there's gonna be secrecy, especially in a five book series, it's gonna be drawn out. I think the next book is gonna be heart-wrenching. I'm not emotionally ready for that, but I mean for 20 year olds with probably really terrible parents across the board that were also put in the same situations that they're being put through.
Ashley:They don't know any better. Nobody taught them how to communicate. The fucking war college certainly didn't do it dragons are the bad guys it's right to it throw that right to it.
Jonathan:Yeah, I just think the dragons are the just randomly throwing things out there. Huh, guys um, okay, we haven't landed on it yet, as, it being, like I think that's going to start to pop out, like that's going to be the painful point in book four is that those come to fruition Like yeah, you know, I don't none of this is substantiated, but it's like Seventh Den's like yeah, we peaced out because the other dens are dicks.
Mari:Like seventh dens like yeah, we peaced out because the other dens are dicks and they had that, they shaped their bodies as weapons, and that's not who we are, so we peaced out, and we're, and they're I gotta say the ariads were one of the things that made me feel in this book, and what I felt was visceral hatred. To be honest, I was so angry at them.
Jonathan:Explore that.
Mari:Yes.
Jonathan:Tell me, tell me, tell me more about. Say more Mari.
Mari:Me. Oh, the way they, okay, they left Andarna and she's supposed to magically know what to do, even though they literally left her with like no instructions. And then they're like oh well, you suck, because you're not worthy because I guess you're not exactly what we wanted you to be, and so we're going to turn our back on you from this high and mighty tower of prosperity and and just talk about peace because we can have it term they used for her abuse?
Ashley:no, I don't remember that she was the um, the oh yeah, yeah, like the test case we left you behind to see what would happen in 500 years or a thousand years or whatever the case, to see if, if humanity has changed no bitch, because they're still at war. And kudos for and to Andarna, for you know, calling them for being on their high perch. It's easy to to live in this mind space of peace when it's all you've ever known and and that goes without saying that we don't know what happened in the original stories, right, and I forget how much time is left. Was it like 500 years? Is that what it was? From what? From when the Irid's left, from when they were there the first time?
Jonathan:For when the original six it was several hundred Mother does not do a great job of time management.
Ashley:Well, and I think that's part of the propaganda war Something to explore later. But I thought Andarna for being a child literally a child she's only a couple of years, a few years old was very intuitive and empathetic to how she had evolved to be what she and her rider needed and how she emulated the people and the dragons that were around her so that she could keep her family safe. She might have been the test piece that was left behind, but I think there's something to be said for how she's developing into her own as being the only one of her kind on the continent. So I thought that was really really well done and I think we needed to hate the irids a little bit right so that we could see andarna's development, especially for the quote betrayal that was to come later who betrayed who, though?
Jonathan:yeah, I think that's to be seen, yeah I think maybe it's possible that the for me, I think it's possible that the dragons, the other dens, betrayed the seventh den and somehow that message was lost. They were like we're going to leave her here as peace, a reminder of what we are.
Mari:Yeah, like I'm sure that what we're hearing is like the whole his story, her story and the truth, like we're hearing sides and bits and pieces and I'm sure the truth is somewhere out in left field that we may get by the end of the books or may have, you know, have to piece together. So, all right, what do we think about fantasy rating ash?
Ashley:um, that hurt my brain. Sorry, I couldn't even tell you why it's hurting my brain. I I think I'm just trying to like separate all of the books in my head, I think from a fantasy perspective, without dabbling too deep into the world building side, because that's its own category. It was, it was a four for me. I think we saw different magic. I think we saw more individuals involved. Right, good and bad. Quote, unquote. Um, and I was very interested to learn the balance of the magic in this book in a way that we had not really heard before. So I that was very intriguing from a from a new learning experience perspective for me.
Mari:Yeah, I agree, for me it was a five in fantasy, but the reason I gave it a five was some of the same things you were talking about. I literally put that we learned more about the balance in magic and in powers and how it plays in long-term. We learn more about everyone's power developing the whole world expanded out. Basically, we're learning everything as Violet is learning it, and I like when authors do that in a multiple series book. I think it's a great way of building out the world and building out the magic and building out the lore without just doing a bunch of lore dumping just in the beginning, like you, as a reader are learning as the main character is learning.
Ashley:Yeah, um, that was well, and how we were not done learning it either, right? So like there isn't um a verbatim explanation for why violet could speak to her dragons outside of the continent Nobody else could we have we could theorize on it, right, especially considering the second signet.
Ashley:But I mean there's the, the answers. We haven't gotten all the answers yet by any means. There's definitely and very obviously more to come. So we're all just like on the hook it's. It doesn't have to be baited, it's just a real ascent rebecca, take us, take us home fantasy fantasy.
Jonathan:It's again I. It left me wanting more.
Ashley:Still gonna get a five that's high praise, but it left me one. It left me wanting more there, so I'm going to get a five.
Jonathan:That's high praise, but it it left me one. It left me wanting more. There wasn't enough answered, there wasn't. You know I'm I'm strung along, I'm an addict trying to try to get more of this drug and it's just, it's just wisps of it, but not toxic at all, right.
Jonathan:Um at all right um she's toxic to me, um, but not the other way around. Yeah, I mean, I'm not chasing after her, uh, but at the end of the day it was, it was all, but it was also like a. It was like a flimsy drug. It wasn't there, wasn't the. The hints were there. The substance wasn't burned off real quick, it burned off super quick. So like uh. An example of this is the um mark. One second signets. What amounted to what was presented as being a printing error was then all of a sudden part of the story. Now, I I never once ruled it out. It's in print and it's in play, but that's one of the things that was like oh, it wasn't an aha or an I gotcha and I told you so moment, it just felt like a convenient fix. And it gave me a fix like oh, like a brilliant mistake.
Ashley:Yeah, it was a brilliant.
Jonathan:Yeah, exactly, it was a happy tree. Happy accident, a happy tree, yeah, yeah, one of those things and or even just like so, and this is the unique thing about authors compared to other artists is that if I want to influence Taylor Swift, it's not going to happen. I'm not going to. My voice isn't loud enough, our voice isn't loud enough. It's not going to happen. I'm not going to. My voice isn't loud enough, our voice isn't loud enough.
Jonathan:But, for some reason, for an author, if we pick on on a topic and we kind of twist the screws a little bit, they're going to reply. They're going to respond. Um, so somebody like Rebecca, who has 1.4 million or 1.2 million followers on Instagram, for her to be impacted by everybody saying, hey, what's up with? Why was Liam wielding ice, you know? Or man, you know what I'd really like to know after two books by his dad's name, you know, all of a sudden, we're getting those things and we're still not. We're still leaving doors open. So, fantasy, I'm getting that. That medium fix, a flimsy fix that's dragging me along. Um, I'm, I'm not. I don't dislike it, it's just, it's, it's not as is. I don't even know if there's a word substantive, substan maybe. Maybe I want to say substantial, I don't know.
Mari:Yeah, substantial.
Jonathan:I need more meat. Mother, Feed me, Kelly. What did you think?
Kelly:I like how you went. I didn't hate it. It just wasn't substantial, but still a five.
Jonathan:Yeah, thank you, I appreciate that.
Kelly:He worked hard on it. I I gave the fantasy a three because I think we had some interesting expansion of the world, some introduction of some new stuff, but a lot of it was very one dimensional. The Irid were very one dimensional. Some of the people we encountered on the islands were very one-dimensional, made to just be one-dimensional enemies. More fleshed out. It feels more like a specific fantasy setting rather than something that's just kind of a mishmash of Pern. So overall I think it was a three. I think it's an improvement from the other books, but still not, in my opinion, a five.
Ashley:Your standards are high, sir. You've done more reading than the rest of us. I'm entertained. He likes a good wine.
Jonathan:When he uncorks it, he has to have a good bouquet.
Ashley:Forgive me, I was not judging. I was merely letting our listeners know that my ratings are on entertainment. Are we coming back for more? Yes, sign me up. We were in line. We were in line for this book. My ratings are on entertainment right Like. Are we coming back for more? Yes, sign me up. We were in line. We were in line for this book. When have you ever stood in line?
Jonathan:I don't stand in lines. No, jonathan's standards are low, yeah, how fast.
Ashley:Can Amazon deliver this to us? You know what I mean.
Jonathan:We stood in line for the possibility of this special edition of this book at Target, a store he hates and has written off of the books of our household. Let me just say this I'm a trendsetter. We wrote off Target and banned Target from our household way before all these other bandwagon jumpers did.
Ashley:Yes, I.
Jonathan:I feel like I triggered that movement. Um, probably, uh no, but I'd like good job, kelly, I love this for you.
Ashley:I love that. It's just a basic standard for you. Like a three, I feel like it's high praise for the caliber of reading that we're doing.
Kelly:Right, but like a three. I feel like it's high praise for the caliber of reading that we're doing. But it's not just entertainment. It's that the fantasy world has to feel like there was thought behind it, like it wasn't just mashed together at the last minute and being written on the fly. I appreciate it when a fantasy setting feels like it's well-developed, like to me, harry Potter is actually not a great fantasy setting because there's so many things in the world, in that fantasy world, that make absolutely no sense, that contradict itself, you know, and things like that. And that's a perfect example of an author adding stuff on the fly. You know, we've never heard of the tale of the three brothers until it was important in the last book. You know, things like that. Things only got learned about when it was important. So it was kind of yeah, that's, that's an author throwing things together at the last minute, which is fine. That worked for harry potter, I guess, but as far as the quality of the fantasy world, it just wasn't very good.
Mari:So, jonathan, do you think that the whole Liam thing that she retconned that what is she basically? Like People are like oh, here's an error, Like, oh, well, here's an error. And then so after she went back and like wrote it into the storyline.
Jonathan:Yeah, retcon is retroactive continuity change. Yeah, absolutely I think it's retroactive continuity change.
Mari:but also she got peer pressure's a bitch what do we think about the romance and what are we rating the romance?
Ashley:I wasn't ready. I couldn't tell you why I wasn't ready um, I thought there was a lot of growth again, you know, for their age, for their, for their fucked up upbringings, I think they did a lot for themselves in a very short amount of time. Even though we're talking about book number three, not a ton of time has lapsed. So I was a fan. I thought, you know, we got a little bit more out of it.
Mari:I thought we saw growth with them independently as well as a couple. So it was a four for me, without it being a relationship breaker. Like at one point Zayden says we're beyond the breakup stage, you know they're learning which is it's true and it's they're learning to adult together in horrible circumstances. Like I think it's. It's well done For yeah, five for me.
Jonathan:I mean I'm still gonna give it a five but, like, realistically, this is the worst relationship I've ever been in. Like, this is a. This is a shitty relationship, right? So yeah, like there, there's so many, so many things are happening all at the same time. Now we've got both of them have exes involved that they have to deal with. There's some, um, jealousy rears its ugly head again, but on on the zayden side of things, and you know, there's, there's just, and then, meeting the in-laws, he's like this is this is just. It's interesting. I, I was caught off guard with some of that stuff. Um, which part were you caught, mom?
Jonathan:mom, yeah, mommy, shadow mommy I was. I was really caught off guard. That happened too fast for me I thought it would be interesting to see her play a different role than what she played. I think she just kind of like it was weak sauce.
Mari:Not all humans are great, but were you, what were you thinking she or what were you wanting her to?
Jonathan:play. I wanted a sibling. I wanted her to have a find love and have a relationship with where she grew, where she had a family. But I wanted his mother to be, uh, part of part of the part, part of the adversary. But part of the solution at solution same time. That's not. That was ashley's foot.
Jonathan:That was not her it was not her booty that sound effect. Turn on the mic um the. I wanted her to be like part of the Flyers, you know, like something in that area, peromish in nature. I wanted more drama, but I wanted her to be.
Ashley:She was a regular person.
Jonathan:Yeah, and I wanted a sibling. It let me down. I wanted her. Well, she was a dick and I wanted.
Mari:She was a dick.
Jonathan:I wanted the sibling to play a better part. I'm glad that they were leveraged, don't get me wrong. I'm glad that they were like yeah, but I'm also disappointed. Who didn't see the cake coming? I saw the cake coming. I'm no dumbass. I'm not putting this thing in my mouth first, you're crazy, you didn't see the cake coming. Yeah, that bugged the fuck out of me.
Mari:I did not see the cake coming. I was not looking for the cake, man don't be shit. I was focused on what a crappy mother he had who would feed her child chocolate cake on his birthday. And then peace out for the rest of his life.
Ashley:Kudos to Violet for that. I did see the poison cake coming here's the thing If Violet hasn that?
Jonathan:I did see the poison cake coming. Yeah, I guess here's the thing If Violet hasn't learned since day one to or sorry, not day one, was it? Well, yeah, day one. Violet's been poisoning food since book one, so Violet poisoned food. Then Violet got poisoned by drink in book two, and now here we are in book three and we're still using food. Yeah, just you know, maybe you you need a taster. I think the relationship is boys. It grows, but boys take a fucking turn. Um, um, shitty decisions are on the horizon. Kelly, where do you think of romance?
Kelly:I gave the romance a three Because, while it did seem like they had matured in some aspects of their romance, again we have two books where they kept secrets from each other and should have learned that they shouldn't keep secrets from each other. And we're still keeping secrets from each other. So what kind of romance is that?
Ashley:A baby one. They're just babies.
Mari:They're just a baby Spice. What do we think about the spice? I thought we had some spice in this book.
Ashley:I was not mad at the spice at all. Yeah, it was. It was a five. I have zero complaints about the spice. We got to break some tables. We had more trust in each other in this book. They were willing to give shit up for each other. Yeah, there was jealousy, which isn't healthy, but it's nice. It was a five for me.
Mari:I was appropriate spice yeah, I gave it five stars for spice as well. Um, book two is still my favorite of the three for spice that was. But I thought the spice stuff in this book three was not. So by the the end of this we're going to have a girl group or a boy band at the end of all seven books and each of them is going to be a certain spice. It's going to be the new, the new spice peeps. For me it was well done because of some of the things they had to work through and I felt like the spicy scenes and the sex scenes were put in there in a way that it didn't feel like, oh, it's time for a sex scene. It felt like they were actually using it to like Rebecca was actually using it to emotionally ramp up the story and what's going on and getting them to feel more and remember what's at stake. So, yeah, for me it was well done. It's a five.
Jonathan:I'm still going to give it a five. But there was, you know, it scored a 67% on the calculator.
Ashley:Oh, that's pretty high.
Jonathan:It's pretty high. Some of that was she got busy quickly, no mention whatsoever of what happened 24 hours, 48 hours before. No, like nobody cared that there was a fucking all out war and their whole world got turned upside down. Yeah, but within that first 20% of the book or so, there might've been like chapter two. They were fucking um, which was which was interesting? Um, healing, yeah, oh, is that what it is?
Mari:yeah, music if like it's giving me I'm trying to remember, guys, that what that is isn't there like a song, sexual healing or something?
Jonathan:that's the name of the game. Yeah, I, they were definitely. Somebody was doing the bridge, somebody was on all fours. Um, it was more, there was more thought of.
Jonathan:So it felt like in books one and two that sexy time was basically a filler. Like you, if you were going to redact books one and two, all you had to know was where, where spice happens and you can just block out that whole chapter. It still feels like that, but there's more of it. The only, my only, takeaway here is that, or my only like, if I had a, if I was, if I was going to take points away I'm not, if I was going to take points away, it would be uh, they, she. It's stated early on in the book that title trump's rank, but they had to wait till they got on the road, till he was like you mean, I'm not a professor today, get over here, baby. Like, if title trump's rank, then just be like I'm nobility, pound salt, I'm gonna pound to pound her Figure. That one out a little sooner, kind of thing. Other than that, it's above average spice.
Mari:Do we think it's a kissing book? Yes, absolutely.
Ashley:I don't know Shoot your face, I'm going to give it a five, but I don't know I'm going to give it a five, but I don't know.
Jonathan:Here's why I don't know. Give it a five, but I don't know. Here's. Here's why I don't know it. There's nobody, there's no memory at the end of the box I mean, yeah, there is, there's plenty of memory.
Mari:just because that one event you know was taken, was taken out for now, or whatever, doesn't mean that everything else didn't happen and everything else leading up to it didn't happen. And if Violet didn't love Zayden the way she loves him, she wouldn't have defended him from everybody. He would have just been destroyed as a Venon, or he would have been found out as a Venon and then had to leave, like it would be a totally different book, or he would have been killed early on. He would have been killed early on. He would have been treated like anybody else who turns Venom.
Jonathan:I wish, I wish there was some way For one of their close companions To Read her mind and maybe unlock what happened.
Ashley:I don't think what happened Is required. I want to know what happened that. I don't think what happened is is required.
Jonathan:I want to know what. No, I want to know what happened I don't think what happened is there.
Mari:I think imogen wiped it. I don't think dane can read it. I want to know, what happened.
Ashley:Oh yeah, can you even read something that's been wiped out, erased? I?
Jonathan:don't know. All I know is that.
Ashley:All I know is that if you want to know what happened. They got married I want.
Jonathan:We don't know that. We have hints.
Ashley:No, we have a certificate signed by the ladies from the temple. There's your proof.
Jonathan:How many times in the book did you feel like she was hinting at Liam being alive?
Mari:Not many, to be honest don't think liam is alive.
Jonathan:I really don't. So when you said not many, that meant I know, I think I think a lot of people want liam to be alive.
Mari:I I didn't now, I wasn't particularly looking for it because I'm not like. I think I think he was a great character and I think that you know we liked him and he was honorable, and that the final like it's been my honor is a a knife twisted in the heart and I don't think that, um, you can build on that emotional perfection. Uh, I think coming back is just not gonna do anything I'm gonna agree with you there and I will.
Ashley:And I want to circle back on something that you said earlier about not really, um, you know, like knowing too much of rebecca's like romance writing style. Here's the thing rebecca will kill a bitch, rebecca will kill a main character and in fact yeah, spoiler for one book she will kill a kid. So we're I'm just gonna put that out she's going to rip our hearts out.
Mari:Okay, this is not and she said multiple times it's war, no one is safe.
Ashley:So she's, and so the, the fault, the, the comeback to that is that she killed liam with intention. She did not feel that this character could develop any further. But to Jonathan's point, because here's, here's, I can see the eyes he's making at me. You guys can't see it Cause he's hiding something you don't know. There's no body there. We are getting conflicting stories of what happened to Liam after his quote death. Rebecca is on record, if I'm not mistaken, and it's very possible that I am, but she is on record to say liam died. Do you know who else died?
Ashley:hold on jack jack freaking barlow brennan her dad violets almost died, like her dad's, maybe probably dead mirrors almost died.
Mari:We'll see any other theories you want to talk about before we wrap it up.
Jonathan:What was with her? You saw somebody with silver hair and you didn't think. You didn't ask more questions.
Ashley:Yeah, I would have made time for that. Well, she was fighting for her life at that point. When they were traveling. Let's make some time for this.
Jonathan:Tell me more. Let's just get some tea.
Mari:Are we ready to wrap up the book? Talk about this particular book. So March is Women's History Month and most of our Romanticity authors are women, so we don't necessarily need to highlight women in particular in the Romanticity genre, but I did want to highlight a book I read recently and, if anyone wants to bring up anything else in women's history or something else to recommend, but I recently read the book the lady from the black lagoon by mallory o'meara and it's a story of. It's a. It's a non-fiction book. It's a story of millicent patrick, who was one of disney's first female animators and she's the only woman to create one of one of the universal monster, hollywood's classic monster. She designed the, the gill man, the creature from Black Luguli.
Ashley:That would have been a woman.
Mari:It's a really good read Nice nice. Yeah, it was a fun read. It was well done, it was well written and it was an interesting story to find out about it and I would recommend that Any other women's history stuff anybody wants to bring up.
Ashley:I got nothing.
Mari:Okay, so thanks for listening to Mates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate and review us, and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us. Follow us on Instagram at ofswordsand soulmates, or join us on our Facebook page at ofswordsandsoulmates. Check us out on our website, ofswordsandsoulmatescom, or on YouTube, tiktok and Pinterest with the same username.
Mari:If you'd like to offer a suggestion for a future episode or reach out to us, give us your opinion, please feel free to do so. We welcome it. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode, follow us on Goodreads at Of Swords and Soulmates, or for chapter by chapter interaction on the Fable app at the Of Swords and Soulmates book club. On there, we also have a Tome account. Just search for Of Swords and Soulmates and we're on there. You can follow us and interact with us there. And last but not least, what Follow us and interact with us there? And, last but not least, what I'm very excited about I've been waiting for we hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode, where we will be discussing Throne of Glass by Sarah J Maas.
Jonathan:I'm excited, thank you.
