Of Swords and Soulmates
Is this a kissing book? Of Swords and Soulmates features two couples (and sometimes more), with varying reading preferences and experiences, as they read, listen, and sometimes watch romantasy stories and discuss plot, fantasy elements, romance, spice, theories, and more. Join us for our non-expert opinions as we discuss, argue, rave, rant, and hopefully entertain. We may just help you find your next reading obsession or at least contribute to that TBR list!
Of Swords and Soulmates
"Throne in the Dark" - Dark Romance and Comedic Undertone Adventure
This episode embarks on an exploration of *A Throne in the Dark* by AK Caggiano, where dark romances clash with comedic undertones, leading characters on an unexpected journey of self-discovery and emotional growth. We dissect the book's intricate world-building, character dynamics, and the balance of fantasy and romance, while expressing our varied ratings and thoughts on where the characters’ relationships might head next.
What happens when you mix the thrill of Kickstarter with the world of romantic fiction? We kick off this episode with our own adventures in backing creative projects, featuring a book-themed board game that promises to charm bibliophiles and board game fans alike. Unpacking the latest from Publishers Weekly, we celebrate the rebound in print book sales, with fantasy fiction spearheading this revival.
As we get psyched for Ramsay Con, we reveal a tantalizing cover for "Sin: The News Alchemized," slated for a 2025 release with captivating Geiger-style artwork. We're buzzing about a flurry of upcoming book releases and an armful of pre-orders that promise to keep our shelves busy. From Juliet Cross to RF Kuang, this episode is a testament to our fervor for new stories and our ongoing discussion about the romantic tension and spice in "A Throne in the Dark" by AK Casiano. It's a book that’s got us all sharing laughs and debating its pacing quirks, especially when the audiobook serves up accents that are comically unexpected.
And if you think Dungeons & Dragons is just a game, think again! We draw parallels between the character arcs in our campaigns and those in our fantasy reads, pondering the effectiveness of world-building and romance. Join our community as we champion diversity in literature and celebrate Black history, embracing stories that enrich our understanding and appreciation of the world.
- Links from the News Segment and Show (not all were discussed):
- A Place for All My Books boardgame Kickstarter
- Link to KickStarter
- 1-4 players ages 10+ and 60 min play time
- After 2 years of declines, print book sales increased in 2024
- Link to story
- Fantasy up 35.8%, led by Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros
- SenLin Yu’s Alchemized Cover Reveal
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Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants. The hosts make no claim to be literary experts and their opinions are exactly that opinions. All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and is being used under the Fair Use Doctrine.
Mari:Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch and discuss romanticist stories. I'm one of your hosts, mari, and with me I have Kelly.
Kelly:Hey everyone, it's Kelly and, like always, we have Ashley.
Ashley:Hey guys, it's Ashley. We also have Jonathan.
Mari:Hey, what's up? It's JP. We're gangs all back together. Today we're going to be discussing A Throne in the Dark by AK Caggiano, but first, as always, we're going to go over some news. The first thing I had is not 100% book related, but there's a Kickstarter board game that I believe closes today, the date that this podcast airs. It's called A Place for All my Books and it's basically a board game for like book people. It's one to four players ages 10 and up, and it's like a 60 minute gameplay and you're basically collecting books, rearranging books, books and like there's something about like it recharges your social battery and then you can go get more books. Yeah, it sounds like a fun, like nerdy bookish, like generic book. It's just not like you have to know anything about any particular genre or book or whatever. A fun little game. So if anyone likes books and board games, that would be potentially worth checking out have you ever done a kickstarter?
Ashley:yeah, I've done a few one yeah, interesting like been part of one or made one like like done one, like like paid into one yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mari:Um, we have a few board games we've done through kickstarter, trying to think what else we may have done through Kickstarter. Oh, I have a travel toothbrush that I supported on Kickstarter. That's like still being made, but it's like you do the little toothpaste in the handle of the toothbrush and it's like all in one, it was really neat, really neat idea for, like, compact travel. I mean, it's an interesting concept because you're helping, you know, and if it's something you're interested in, you get it. Yeah, but it's not the same as buying it, because there is that whole potential that it never fully gets funded or fully gets made, do you?
Ashley:get your money back if it doesn't yeah they don't.
Mari:I'm trying to remember. They don't charge you until.
Kelly:Unless it reaches the funding goal. I'm trying to remember they don't charge you until, unless it reaches the funding goal. So if they say we need $100,000 for this project, if they raise enough supporters to meet that amount, then it'll get funded and you'll get charged for it, and if they don't reach the goal, then your credit card or whatever never gets charged.
Ashley:Interesting.
Mari:So it's a bit of a gamble. The other news I have is Publishers Weekly dropped some stats of 2024. And after two years of print book sales being in decline, 2024 was the first year that it has gone up. I mean it didn't go up significantly, but it's not dropped. And adult fiction category was what basically bumped that up. Fantasy had the biggest increase and there's a quote I had from the article that said Fantasy had the biggest increase in the adult segment, up 35.8%. Sarah J Maas and Rebecca Yaros were the queens of romancy in the year, with each landing two books among a year's top sellers. Maas' A Court of Thorns and Roses and A Court of Mist and Fury moved about 1.3 million and 791,000 copies respectively, while Sales of Yarrows' Iron Flame and Fourth Wing sold nearly 1.7 million copies combined last year. Hot dog Mm-hmm.
Jonathan:What do you think, what percentage of profits do you think she sees from that?
Ashley:Which she.
Jonathan:Rebecca.
Ashley:Oh Well, seeing as how those two books only recently moved to Kindle Unlimited, it was probably a decent turnaround. Kindle Unlimited you get paid by the page read, not by the book borrowed.
Mari:Oh, interesting. I didn't know how that worked.
Ashley:Yeah, it's an interesting concept.
Kelly:It says traditional publishers and print generally 5%, fifteen percent of sales, and so I guess it would be 15 percent if you're like stephen king and five percent if you're less well, less well-known author I'm gonna guess that she didn't have such.
Ashley:She probably didn't have an amazing deal for fourth wing, although she's a well-known contemporary romance writer, right romanticist like this was her first official romanticist book, but she probably brokered herself a better deal. I'm hoping for iron flame for yeah if she didn't, she needs to get her people on it well the fact that they, like they, came to her.
Mari:They wanted her to write like her publisher wanted her to write, in the genre. I would think they would have had to offer her something good right.
Ashley:Yeah, I think it was something. I believe I read or saw something at some point where she had been wanting to do this for quite some time and she couldn't get buy-in from her, her publisher or whatever for a very long time. She's got a number of contemporary romances out there, right.
Ashley:And then I guess, just eventually it was all right, you know, let's hear your pitch, yeah, um, and she had to come with like five fully formed pitches, beginning, middle and end, basically. And I think I had also read that violet getting spoiler, spoiler here, that violet getting two dragons was actually a compromise with her um, agent or publisher or whatever that. Because you know, I think originally she had these, these two ideas, but she was angling towards like andarna being the only dragon and publisher was like not really sure how that's going to be perceived. And then they were like okay, well, what about a really, really bad-ass dragon and and Arna, and that's how she got to.
Ashley:That was not the original plan.
Mari:See, now that gives me a little bit of heart palpitations, for all the theories that are like Taryn's going to die before the series is over with. And, like Taryn's, gonna die before the series is over with, and I'm like you, shut your mouth. There is a cult following. Oh, oh, I gotta say for for Agatar being a 15, no, a 10 year old book which still be right in the top 10.
Ashley:Yeah, wolf, that's pretty damn good that's all social media, in my very humble opinion. I think the power of social media for Rebecca and for Sarah J Maas has been probably pretty life-changing. I think Sarah had a cult of her own before BookTalk, but if they're in the last two years I mean before Fourth Wing came out it was definitely like Sarah J Mass and Jennifer Armentrout, I think, is how you pronounce her last name and I've not read any of her books, but she has several series out and she actually runs Polycon.
Ashley:I think it's a Polycon.
Mari:Yeah, jlm, and those were the two really really, really big authors that just flooded my For you page on TikTok, so big, big names with lots of books line of readers. You know you have people who you know maybe got into some voracious reading with like hunger games and stuff in that era, right and there wasn't right as much that captured that group of people or maybe brought them back to reading. Until some of some of this agatar, fourth wing, throne of glass, like this whole new wave of whatever, um, wave of romancy or whatever, yeah, I think has brought some people back into reading For sure.
Ashley:My sister, you know, was never a reader. She had always, just never really had. She never thought she could do it, almost right, like she didn't have the time, she didn't have like the bandwidth, you know, to just sit down and read in the way that one can just sit down and watch, you know, five hours of television. Yeah, um, she never really believed that it was for her and then and then she did. You know, it was just, I think, the exposure on social media and the hype and the excitement for the storytelling, um, it finally just spoke to her and you know she sat down and she read a book and she was like, well, fuck, this was amazing, this is for me. And now she has a bookshelf with books on them, she has a Kindle and a whole little setup.
Mari:And I think that's another thing and my little reader heart is so excited for her. I think that's another thing too. Like, I think some things that are making reading easy as a whole are also leading towards people buying print books, even if they didn't necessarily read it that way. So you have the more availability of audiobooks and better quality audiobooks, and you have, yeah, e-readers that are, you know, pretty high quality and more affordable than they used to be.
Ashley:Oh yeah, and I well, you can decorate them trophies.
Mari:You know you might read it on on your e-reader or listen to it or whatever. And then you're like, well, now I want it for my bookcase.
Ashley:Correct. Yeah, she started with a tiny little shelf like that was mounted on her wall and then she had to invest in an actual like book shelf with, you know, tiers, like five tiers. So it's been exciting for me to watch that growth for her. Like she came to the, to the romance, the Romantici con last year and she had a blast and that was, I mean, arguably all of our first times going to a con of that nature.
Ashley:But like to see her be excited and you know buy books and she sent me a picture the other day of like her decorated Kindle. You know she got like a clear case and she put stickers on picture the other day of like her decorated kindle. You know she got like a clear case and she put stickers on the back and I think, jonathan, you gave her the stickers. She was very excited. She's gonna switch out her stickers based on her mood or the season or whatever it's a whole thing.
Mari:Is she coming back, uh, for ramsay con this year?
Ashley:so I'm unclear. The kids are bigger. Um, would you think it would make it slightly easier, but I'm not sure. Jonathan and I also invested in two days and she was. She likes a plan, but getting her to commit 10 months in advance is hard sometimes, yeah, so we bought the tickets and we were like hey, if you want to do one day or both days, like you know, let us know coordinate.
Ashley:Yeah, but we we bought the tickets in fear that they might sell out. Yeah, but she has not purchased her ticket or tickets yet.
Mari:Okay, I hope she comes. Yeah, for sure. The last little bit of tidbit news I have is that, uh, the cover was revealed, the image was revealed for sin, the news alchemized, yeah did I break your radar because I just screamed was that too high pitch?
Ashley:okay, because we practiced this. And I got frustrated because he kept asking me to test my sound and I was like I'm not gonna yell in podcast but I didn't realize that we had the cover reveal on our talking points, so it's going to be released October 30th 2025.
Mari:The cover is gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, I mean. It's very gothy. It's very like line drawing etching, almost like a Geiger style. Yeah.
Ashley:Yeah, I'm excited I hope I heard there was like some disappointment that the um artist for the cover was not the artist that had kind of done the fan fiction um prints. But my understanding is that there are uh pages perhaps inside the book that does have images from the fan fiction artist. That'll be good. I might be tripping this up, um, and I forget their names and that's my fault for not doing research in advance. Um, listeners, forgive me, but yeah, there's. I read the synopsis for the book and I'm excited. My sister was like well, what do you think? Like is this? Is this, you know, close to the fan fiction? And I was like, honestly, I don't. This sounds pretty close, like pretty on par. Yeah, um, I wasn't disappointed at all by what I read and what I saw, so I'm hyped. Yeah, I think I sent it to you, right?
Mari:Like you got me turned onto this for sure. Yeah, I read it so we are pre-ordered. Yes, same, we are pre -ordered. All 976 pages coming this way.
Ashley:Somebody pray for us, please. The damage from the fan fiction was real.
Mari:Yeah, what will you be doing in October? Crying my eyes out.
Ashley:Wait, yeah, just destroyed. Yeah, just destroyed. And I do appreciate how she made it one complete book instead of, like, forcing us to wait for, you know multiple, you know like a series? Yeah, because that's not how the fan fiction reads. So I think her fan base is really excited, and they should be, because it was just phenomenal writing.
Kelly:Yeah.
Ashley:In my very humble opinion. So I'm stoked. There's a lot of books coming out this year that I'm stoked about. I don't think I've ever pre-ordered so many books.
Mari:I was about to say that exact same sentence. I have never in my life had so many books pre-ordered.
Ashley:And I've been careful, I've been selective, selective, but there must be five or six on deck for me this year yeah, uh, I've got nine so I'm actually scared to look now that I said it out loud. I'm hoping it's just five. Oh, I'm hoping it's just five.
Mari:I've got the compendium of lost tales coming out this month, which is a third in the Emily wilds series. I've got the new cover of sword heart that's being released coming out this month. Juliet cross is releasing a book in April that I have pre-ordered.
Ashley:Is that the firebird Is? It firebird, I want to, but it's like $30. Yeah, gosh dang, it's real pretty. It is. There are no $30. Yeah, gosh dang, it's real pretty. I hope it's good it is there are no lies.
Mari:Yeah, I really hope it's good. I mean, it's got the picture that extends along the painted edges. Don't peer pressure me, don't do it, you don't need it, you're okay.
Ashley:Five, six. Yeah, it's like six yeah, it's.
Mari:The enchanted greenhouse, which is a sequel to spell shop, is coming out in july. Accomplice to the villain is coming out in august. Unlock and silver the new tea kingfisher, is coming out in august. Um rf quang has a book coming out in august that I've heard people say is her first going to be her first foray into romanticism Catabases.
Ashley:Yes, it's. Yeah. You might've gotten that from me. I'm not even sure.
Mari:Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, um, yep, Uh, the things God's break, which is the sequel to, you know, our Abigail Owens stories coming out in September and then alchemized.
Ashley:So yes, all the pre-orders oh so, ma'am, you are missing. Um, where is it? Rebel without a cause? No, uh-uh, hold please. Uh, I'm starting to panic now because the second cali heart book is supposed to come out this year, I thought yeah, uh the, the sequel to quicksilver.
Mari:Yeah, actually I did pre-order that one, but I pre-ordered that one on a different website. I think I did the British Waterstones because they're the first one I did Waterstones, so I wanted them to match and there's been a title reveal on that one Brimstone. Yes.
Ashley:November 18th. Yes, so I think, the only one that you're missing, not to add to poor Kelly's debt.
Mari:Oh no, it's all my debt. Okay, good, it's all my debt. Crisis averted.
Ashley:So in July I don't know if you have this. One is the other Dramini fan fiction. I thought I mentioned it last time the Irresistible Urge to Fall for your Enemy.
Mari:I wanted to read it before I pre-ordered it, but maybe I just need to pre-order it.
Ashley:You know, I don't know if it's still available now. That might make the choice for me then yeah, if you didn't download it before the end of the year, I'm pretty sure it's gone off of AO3.
Mari:Okay. Well then I may just have to pre-order that one. Oh, I've got two more. Two more on pre-order. Yeah, I've got the faith breaker, which is the third um fallen gods trilogy by hannah kaner, the she wrote god killer. That third one is coming out. And then I have the ballad of falling dragons, which is the sequel to when the moon hatched.
Ashley:So I need to read that. That was a massive tangent on our news list. Sorry guys, but it felt like important. I feel like we should do a pre-order catch up every quarter.
Mari:I agree. Hey, listeners, what do we have on deck? Yes, listeners, tell us what have you pre-ordered?
Ashley:Because we want to know what are we missing, guys? We?
Mari:need to know On to why we're here, which is to talk about. Well, I mean, we talked about books, but also talking about A Throne, and I've had the hardest time remembering the name of this book. No shade on the author or anything. I enjoyed the book, but for some reason, the name would not stick in my head. So, throne in the Dark by AK Casiano. I think I'm the one who suggested it. I couldn't remember, but I think I suggested it. Yeah, I don't know how we got here. Okay, it I couldn't remember, but I think I suggested it. Yeah, I don't know how we got here. Okay, if I'm the one that suggested, I think I remember first hearing about it on like reddit. There was a, um, a chat thing where people were talking about books that are like sword heart by teaking fisher, that I really liked, and this was recommended by several people, so it was on my list to read because of that. So, and it's like, oh, it's valentine's day is, you know, it's February, so we'll read it. So let me talk a little bit about it and then we'll get into talking about the book and our opinions. This book is self-published September 28th 2022. I was looking through her website, the author's website and she credits her illustrators and stuff on there. And Angeo Art, a-n-g-e-o Art is the artist who did the covers for all three books in this trilogy.
Mari:So the synopsis dark, lord demon spawn, prophesied realm destroyer with a demon for a father, damien maleficus bloodthorn's destiny could be nothing but nefarious. And with the compelling excuse me, and with the completion of his most vicious spell, damien's on the cusp of fulfilling the evil inevitability all of his dark machinations have led to. And then her Bubbly, obnoxious blonde Harboring secrets of her own. A tiny yet troublesome thief calling herself Ama completely upsets Damien's malevolent plans when she mistakenly gets chained to his side through magic, forcing him to drag her across the realm. Killing her would fix things, of course, but the nauseatingly sweet Ama proves herself useful on Damien's unholy crusade and then proves herself the source of something even more sinister, feelings, feelings.
Mari:Will Damien be forced to abandon his villainous birthright to help the tender thorn in his side, or will he manage to overcome the virtue Ama insists on inspiring and instead cut it out at the heart? So we're going to get into the book discussion. This is, you know, we started doing it this way this year. It's all spoilers, so we are not limiting ourselves, and if you've not read the book, maybe pause it. So what do we think like overall rating.
Ashley:I'll go first, I listen. I started chuckling in the first chapter. I was interested, I just also could not speed through it. I struggled to finish the book and I don't think it had anything to. I can't figure out why I like the story, I think just maybe there was a lot of it. I'm questioning my sanity here, but it was funny, it was quirky. There was some slow burn stuff happening. I thought there was a real attempt at world building and character building, at least for what I got through, because, full transparency, I didn't finish. So sorry guys, I think this is my first. I didn't get through it book. All good, all good. So it was like a three and a half for me because I didn't not like it. I've definitely read books on this podcast that I didn't like. I just man, I just couldn't finish it in time.
Mari:Telly or Jonathan.
Jonathan:I thought it was like a sm smoldering, not not like a I wouldn't even call like a slow burn, like a, just a light smolder um with uh and I I it was interestingly light like there were. I guess it was just there were just hints of hints of spice or hints of action that you thought maybe would be around the next chapter. Um, and I just didn't.
Jonathan:I didn't find them, but I think, if I kept deluding you because I was reading it in the if I had to like change my perspective. So initially I thought, oh, I'm gonna read this as like, as monster spice. And I think once I changed my perspective to and started looking at it through the lens of like, why a monster romance? Then I started seeing it differently. It wasn't. I didn't find, I didn't get the chuckles like you got the chuckles oh, I like the banter.
Jonathan:I thought it was cute with the audio book was interesting, so maybe that took away from it, because when they changed perspectives you heard the, like, the, the, when you are in the, in the masculine tone, and the masculine tone impersonated the feminine tone. It was very it wasn't done well.
Ashley:Tell them about Kaz. Guys, how did you hear Kaz's voice in your heads? Um kind of Okay. Tell them about Kaz.
Mari:Guys, how did you hear Kaz's voice in your heads? Kind of Okay. So for me Kaz was basically a fire imp version of Kaz Brekker from Vilea Bardugo book, so kind of older and like ornery kind of over it, Like Kaz Brekker if he'd never had his crew, and older. That's how I.
Jonathan:Tell them, tell them, tell them over it like kaz brekker if he never had his crew and older. That's how I tell. Yeah, tell them, tell them, tell them. The voice selection in the audiobook was like a new york asshole.
Ashley:Yes, basically yeah, yes, the new york accent for me just made it so much better.
Jonathan:You got to do the imitation, do it hey, forget it, get out of my way, you whore. It was like I was like that, wow, I was like came out of left field, like what the fuck the chuckle.
Ashley:I chuckled when he told me that tonight because we hadn't really talked about you, and that's something I should do more frequently is ask if there are any interesting quirks about the voices. Right, because the pirates were what like a scottish accent or something like that when we did the pirate book and that was like why, but Kaz being so ornery, but also a New York accent in this?
Jonathan:fantasy. It's like an idiot, like an idiot, Like, like, just like real, like you know, like a walk in here.
Mari:Yeah, real abrasive.
Jonathan:Yeah, like everything, it's like instead of a period. It was just like, your was just like, and that's how we would in the, that's how they would say it like, anytime he was, ever, whatever terms he like, he couldn't. It was just reflex that he couldn't not call her some sort of derogatory name but in the new york accent like for me, that's the icing on the cake like.
Ashley:It just makes it a thousand times better.
Jonathan:And for some reason, I think only from the feminine perspective was he voiced um, so it was like so they were, so you never heard it in a masculine, you heard it, but when he was doing, because he had. Sometimes, when they do these like demons, it's all. It's oftentimes like a very formal, like accent, like english uk kind of accent, and then, um, she's very americanized. And then kaz is just like hey, I'm walking here, yeah, yeah literally cannot contain myself.
Jonathan:I need a bagel. You trollop, get out of my way. Um the um. Yeah, anyway, it was. Uh, it was. It was interesting. I did go down a rabbit hole of um mar marquis verse. No, marquis, marquis, marquis. I went. This is what made me go down this rabbit hole, because in the book they pronounce it. In the audio it's marquis, yeah. So I was like. I was like, okay, so why are they saying? Why are they saying it that way. So then I went and looked it up. Uh, marquis is a male lord.
Jonathan:Marquis is a female lord or a lady look at this and I was like, well, maybe they're just wrong, maybe just maybe just caught fire, maybe like they're in the audio booth. And then I was like give it to me phonetically. And they were like we're talking about an audio booth. And then I was like give it to me phonetically. And they were like are we talking about a dude Marquise? And it was like I don't even know if they pronounce the R in the book, but in the phonetic version they don't pronounce the R. I'm going to open a can. Let me mute myself.
Ashley:That was terrible timing, sir. What's your rating?
Jonathan:Five stars Okay timing, sir. What's your rating um? Five stars okay, all of that it was you know once you, once I changed my perspective on it.
Ashley:Five stars, okay, I wanted to like it.
Jonathan:I just there was just so much of it I would give this to, uh, my 16 year old, if I don't have a 16 year old, but if I have one, give it to a 16 year old. Okay, this is, this is right up your alley, understood? I kept waiting for them to say the word cock and they got like halfway cocks, no, and they got like halfway they're cocks, no. They said cock. They got CO, yeah, they're half cocks. She held one, but it was dead.
Jonathan:Oh, it was a dead one, she was like yeah, but they don't address it, they just allude to it. They're like that's what. That was Okay, cool. But they don't say it All right, they're like it's just like Hmm, so which one did you? They were like which one should we choose? This, this one? And she like, pulled out like a floppy one, again, that's the one I would use. So that's like I. At that point I was like here we go but I'm okay with that Once you, like I said, once you look at it from that lens for what?
Ashley:for changing your perspective.
Jonathan:Interesting, interesting.
Kelly:Kelly what did you think? I thought it was a decent book. I enjoyed it. It reminded me a lot of assistant to the villain. Yeah, overall I would say three and a half stars. I think what really pushed it down from being like a four was it just seemed to drag out a lot of things that didn't need to be dragged out, and there were a lot of parts there where the book was unnecessarily long I agree with you on that.
Jonathan:It's like it was like they got caught. They get caught in some some chapters longer than they should like in some situations way longer than they should depth side quests yeah, the whole book felt like a cyclone.
Mari:Yeah, I was looking at her website. See, to me the book felt like a D&D, like a Dungeons Dragons game, and I was like this really feels like a campaign somebody had and then turned it into a book or story. And she actually does on her website and on her Instagram feed and whatnot she plays D&D.
Mari:So I'm like, hmm, like I wonder she's playing the long game yeah, I wonder if this was like a campaign and that's why some of these things drag, because when you're if you've never played dnd it's not a set script, it's not like you're following a movie or reading a book, it's. You know, however many people are in your party and sometimes someone wants to go look at the shiny object over there and so you're side questing to go look at some random shiny object. That means nothing in the grand scheme of things. So kelly knows kelly runs our campaign and uh, yeah, we do a lot of side and not doing what you thought we were going to do, don't we kelly?
Ashley:yep gotta keep him on his toes. What's the?
Jonathan:camp. What's it like? I will define it. Can you define a campaign?
Mari:yeah, yeah. So a campaign is basically the whole game. So like, if you are, if you're playing dungeon dragons, you're gonna get together, you're gonna play. And so you have, you are the same character pretty much the entire time, like, say, maybe I'm a, I'm a fighter and maybe, um, jonathan you're like a wizard and Ash you're like a cleric or whatever. Then we all are going to go do a thing Like, let's say, this time we get together, we're going to play for four hours or whatever, and we're going to free somebody, and then they're going to give us like a little clue as to something else.
Mari:And so you get together and all these games that you play over, however long it takes, are the whole campaign, the whole story or the whole story arc, and your characters level up almost like a video game. Really, video games are like D&D, I guess. Their characters level up and get better at what they do as the game goes on. So maybe your wizard will get more spells, maybe your cleric will be blessed more by their god, maybe your fighter will, like I don't know get a better weapon or something, and so you have different levels until you reach the end of your story, the end of your campaign, whatever that may be, whether that's reaching level 20, whether that's getting a particular goal, whether it's slaying a big bad or you know whatever. Okay.
Jonathan:Interesting, interesting, slaying a big bad or you know whatever.
Mari:Okay interesting, interesting, but yeah, so she plays. So the the author plays. I'm like, oh yeah, that's definitely, definitely a was a um, an influence I it's a high four star read for me. Um, I almost gave it five and I'm I will read the rest, I plan to read the rest and I may bump up the series as a whole to a five, but for right now this particular book I would say is a four.
Mari:I enjoyed it. I laughed a good bit. I like laughed out loud a good bit, like even from the beginning, like I think the first time I remember laughing was probably chapter one where Damien's like oh, you know, I've done my life goal because complete, and then it's like he was 27. He because complete, and then it's like he was 27, he's sweet summer child, okay, um, so, yeah, I pretty much got the tone early on, um, and there was yeah, there were plenty of parts where I laughed out loud. I agree with kelly, it's definitely more comp to like assistance of the villain in terms of like the tone and the comedy. Which comedy is hard. Comedy may not hit the same for everybody, but it worked for me.
Mari:The main reason why I didn't give it a full five was because I felt like Damien's character had a really good character growth or at least a character arc. There was a story. He started in one place and he finished somewhere else and I felt like we went along with that. We're along for that ride. But I felt like ama's entire character growth happened off screen, like when she realized everything that was going on in her realm and decided to go on this journey. And I don't feel like she really changed or progressed a whole lot, um, from the beginning of story to the end. And I don't feel like she really changed or progressed a whole lot, um, from the beginning of story to the end. And I would have. It would have been like a full five to me if they both like felt like they went somewhere. So I mean, maybe in the other books it'll, it'll change, but overall a definite four, a solid four, and I really enjoyed it.
Jonathan:Yeah, I would recommend this the comedy did not land with me.
Ashley:I was like I was hoping the big bad daddy with the it didn't the super bro chat.
Jonathan:He didn't sound broey to you, kiddo, that's the other thing that I left darkest overlord is calling his son kiddo buddy, yeah, oh, I mean like, yeah, I got that. Give me a hug. It wasn't him hugging, it was like he was. He's stuck in that crystal piece of crystal. Yeah, yeah, crystal shard.
Mari:He's like my kid for me personality versus who the character is supposed to be, it was such a small part of the book so here's what I think, though I think it's actually a bigger part of the book because I think it's a way of showing and this is another thing I liked about it I think damien is an unreliable narrator. I think it's like because it's like oh, his dad's is, you know, horrible, whatever horrible or renowned demon of darkness and blah, blah, blah. And then he's like, hey, buddy, how you doing, you know? And then it makes you question other things because, like, there's certain points where he talks about him being all dark and bad or whatever, and I'm almost like, oh yeah, sure, this is one of those times where you're like I'm so bad. So she calls him out on his like, evilness or whatever multiple times and it makes me wonder if all the characters from his perspective is just him being kind of deluded or or just an unreliable narrator.
Jonathan:You know his version of things at the time yeah, it kind of it almost felt like he's like programmed to feel yes like a certain type of way from, I think.
Jonathan:So he's gonna constantly see things through this lens and I think that his father so the way I saw his father was like almost reformed, like I took a whole bunch of shit for granted. I was a real, real piece of shit and now I'm stuck in, stuck in this like Mason jar prison kind of thing, and can't get out. And now that I'm here, I've had a whole bunch of time to reflect and I don't want to have to sit back and reflect for eternity. So if my son can get me out, I'm already happy. I'm just happy with the relationships that I have now and we'll just keep rolling forward on this. And his son is just like yeah, I have this quest and it's undeniable, like this is just, this is what I have to do. I'm driven to do this. I have an on off switch and it's on and this is now. I'm gonna go do this and this is here we go, kind of thing. And I think he's almost wrestling with. Well, he is wrestling with it like how you know, these are strange feelings, like the, the grinch kind of feeling.
Jonathan:Um, I think that ama is kind of in that same boat too, like where she's sort of she. She left on a singular quest and found something I don't think she intended to find. I think she just kind of she relegatedated herself to that betrothed role and then became saw a different pathway that had presented itself. That I don't think she saw initially and she thought I'd kind of like to take that pathway. I just hope that she had found that pathway earlier in the book. I think we'll get a bangening. But I don't think we're going to get a bangening until sometime in the book. I think we'll.
Jonathan:I think we'll get a bangening but I don't think we're going to get a bangening until sometime in the next book, assuming that it follows their uh, their story as far as I know it does, it's all.
Mari:Three books are their story, as far as I know um that's I.
Jonathan:I would I imagine that if it's a, if it's still smoldering, it may, now that they're, if it's still smoldering, it may, now that they're off and on their own, they may find themselves in a space where they can be free with each other. And um, there's got to be some sort of like pain point right in story two, like at the act, the second act, where they're she wants she leaves him to go back to see something or save, or save her land or something, save her parents, like something's got to happen.
Mari:Yeah, there's got to be some blowback from it. I actually had a question since you brought it up. I was going to ask you later, but since you brought it up, I saw that on Tome that you mentioned, and you mentioned it here too, that you saw this book as a monster romance. So for me and I know everyone's got their own version of it from for me I I don't count it as a monster romance. I know this is different than the crew at hissing and kissing um, but I don't count it as a monster romance if the person can pass as like human. Um, so like, it's not like he had wings or tail or scales, whatever, like, unless he did magic, no one would know that he was a blood mage, bad boy yeah, so do um.
Jonathan:Do vampires count?
Mari:it depends on if they can pass, you know. So if they're day walkers, maybe you know, if they like, if they combust in in the daylight and you know, can't stand to be around humans without, um, uh, having a, a blood capri sun, um, then maybe not, you know. So it yeah, like I think, if they can pass in society, I, I don't know that I personally look at those as monster romances I started to qualify monster romance, as is the entirety of every character in the book.
Jonathan:Is there a multitude of beings, whether it's a witch or a wizard or a minotaur or an alien, and if there's more than, and then it only gets. They get from zero to three points based on, um, how many you have. So if there are, if there's none, then you're not going to get a point right. If it's just, if it's just human on human, you're just going to get a point or no points, um, but if there's one additional species, then there's a, then you get one point. Then, if there, if you get like multiple, and we're going up to two and three, um, and so I think with that I had, I definitely went back and forth in the, the, the calculator, when I was, I went back and re-examine the formula and, uh, as I was kind of going through it, I was like you know, how do we want to, how do I want to assign points to this? So if there's none, one, a couple and then like multiple species. So when I, when I looked at this book, I thought I can't. Well, I came out with multiple species. So if I had humans and then I had the blood mage, and then I had imps, um and that, and then there was another. There was like that fourth or that, an additional type of magic um, that was kind of that was popping out. So there were multiple um species of sorts that were popping out.
Jonathan:So I was like, okay, then I have to take that box honestly the same way. It's like you know, there's a how do I, how do I feel about spice or how do I feel about other things popping up? And it's just that, when, when I tipped the scales over towards multiple species, that's what moves it, that's what flips it into monster romance. For me, if I eliminate that question, it just takes it down to romance. But the outcomes are I are for every, for every type of spice level. There's a you can end up into a with, either like a rom-com or a monster rom-com, or like I think in the extreme it's like funny fuckery or funny monster fuckery, I don't know, like all sorts of stuff, or just we're just this is, if it's just straight up, fuckery yeah, yeah no, which happens from time to time.
Jonathan:Yeah, I it's. It's ever evolving. I see what you're saying. I also think he could be. He used magic to hide.
Mari:Right, he could change his appearance and that of others.
Jonathan:And then and he was able to stave off the I forget the guy's name now, the Marquis.
Mari:Oh, I wrote it down because I could never Cedric.
Jonathan:Cedric. He was able to, he used magic to like stave off the um, the spell that he was trying, yeah, yeah, well, the spell that he was trying to when they were in there, when they were having their one-on-one. I also saw this as like, very like, like, business oriented, like amas. Amas kingdom has a very limited resource thing.
Jonathan:Yeah, I mean, they're built on equity too. It's like they're. Her parents were like, yeah, profit sharing, you know, we're going to, we're going to work hard, but we're going to, we're going to have gains together and that's going to be cool. In exchange for that, we don't have defenses, we have minimal defenses, so buy defenses. So they went to uh, made a deal with um cedric's family, like, hey, you guys have a military, that's cool. We're going to give you product at cost, so you'll have your cost of goods sold is going to be as low as possible in exchange for military reinforcement, and that's cool. But the issue then is, if you swing defensive power over to one side now, though, that guy, that guy's family, is cedric's angle is why the hell? Why the hell should I wait for them to sell me stuff at at uh at cost, when I can just go take over that kingdom, install my military uh systematically and make them work twice as hard for half as much? And I think that Ama's parents were basically like, hey, let's squash this. Here's my daughter.
Mari:Yeah. Bargaining tool yeah Can. I interest you in selling my daughter to you. So what do we think of the world building? Oh, I went first last right.
Ashley:Um, there was so much of it, there was there was a lot of building.
Ashley:There was a lot of building, there were a lot of side quests. I don't think it was bad, I just think it was a little bit too much for me. Um, so, again like it, it was like a three and a half. Like. Again, like it was like a three and a half. Like I wasn't uninterested. I just think I was overwhelmed and it just I detached a little bit, like I was just like, oh, like I was, I was really skimming and I was like, oh, I can skip this, oh, I can get this, oh, this is important. No, I can skip this. So I think it was only a three and a half for me. I just couldn't, I couldn't lock in't, lock in like I was entertained. I really, you know, it was a whole. I liked how they it wasn't even a deep dive, it was just like a, how they explained, like the layers of the different oh god, what did she call them? And I think what struck me too was like they used imperia or imperian, and of course, it was very like fourth wing mindset.
Ashley:So, like you know, the heavens were layer one, and then, you know, some the Fae were like layer two, but only because they wouldn't, you know, catch themselves below humans or something like that.
Ashley:And then the human realm was layers of realms. There were the different layers of realms and how it wasn't necessarily a specific order and they were all kind of existing at once. I really liked that explanation. Um, I thought that gave a lot of insight too and, you know, forewarning as to probably what's coming next, like we're probably going to see other realms, right. So I really liked that. It was like it was like a three and a half for me, like it didn't suck. There was. It was very good explanation. There was a lot of characters that were interesting, like what's his name?
Mari:and not was it anomalous, am I saying the alchemist louis, yes, she called the hag called him louis.
Ashley:I love a good nickname um, I liked it a lot. It was just a lot of it I thought it was.
Jonathan:I thought I there's. I want to learn more about some of the, some of the side quests. Like they, they move through different worlds, different lands. I would have liked to have a little bit more knowledge, but at a faster pace, if that makes sense. Yeah, for like Damien's, like home and going through like the swamp area and like the werewolves and stuff like that you could. I feel like you could skip that and cut that out because they weren't.
Jonathan:I don't know if they had a significant impact on the story. There was some fluff built in and then kind of understanding the pathway to the. I guess the library or the restricted section was interesting to me. I guess the library or the restricted section was interesting to me. So when she got into, the imagery that she was using there in that space was I felt was more appropriate, but I don't know. I think there was a bunch of misplaced world building and maybe some missed opportunities for it as well. So she built what she shouldn't have and neglected things that she could have gone deeper in. If that makes sense, I'd probably give it a three. The space was there in the book. It was just misused in my humble opinion.
Kelly:I think I agree with Ashley there was a lot of world building and the way it was kind of piled in just felt excessive. There was a lot of world building and the way it was kind of piled in just felt excessive. There was a lot of world building, lore that we didn't need to know, that was put in there and maybe that'll play out later in the series or whatever, but I think there was just a little bit too much. I think there was some interesting stuff that was done. That was done. I really liked the concept of the trees in Ama's realm and how that played into being kind of a big part of the story and I think it's obvious that that's going to be something to look into further, especially because since Damien didn't know anything about them. So I would say a three and a half.
Mari:Okay For me. I said a four. It was deeper than I expected it to be and it felt, like I've already said, it felt like a D&D campaign or D&D world. I play D&D but I haven't like played it my whole life or since it started or read every single book out. So often when I'm playing D&D there's a lot I don't know that's going on in the world and I'm just kind of rolling with it and figuring it out, and so a lot of times I feel like I think I felt reading this book where it's like, oh, there's a swamp thing over there, and then there's this realm over here and then there's like, okay, well, we'll see which way we're going to go.
Mari:I enjoyed.
Mari:I think there are two main things that stood out to me from the world building other than it being very D&D-like.
Mari:The first thing was I really enjoyed the snippet in the middle with the elves, because you had these elves in so much of the fantasy I've read and watched are very hoity-toity, for lack of a better word, and so for them to be like, ooh, we go away, it felt very like what we do in the shadows or something like. It felt like it humanized them. You know it's like oh wait, they have something to learn and they're not. You know they're not like the the be all and end, all most powerful, you know, above humanity, kind of thing. Yeah, I really enjoyed the way that the elves were, that she basically kind of made fun of elves. And then the other thing thing that I stood out to me in the world building was, although the idea of a blood mage is not super original, I don't think I've ever read a story where one of the main characters was a blood mage. So for me, like the whole magic tied to cutting yourself and having to, like you know, give of your blood to have this thing happen was kind of interesting.
Ashley:so and sometimes exhaustively right like that first scene in chapter one, I was like whoa, where are we going? Right here like how does it, how does this get like, if he dies and he's like on the cusp of death here? Yeah, I, I, I would agree. I don't think I've read a blood mage in the as the primary character before.
Jonathan:Yeah, I certainly haven't. I do wish that while they were in like with the, with the elves in the cage, I thought like here we go. I thought it was like for sure, here we go, they're doing some bindings oh yeah, I have notes.
Mari:I have notes on that. I specifically chapter 21 was just a straight up bdsm scene period.
Jonathan:No notes that's what I wrote, but then then they did somebody like walk in, turn the lights on those darn elves had to come in.
Mari:It's too human in here. It's too human in here. All right, moving on to romance. What do we think of the romance ash Romance.
Ashley:I feel like there was a lot of individual growth more than a romantic growth. I don't think we're at the point of romance, I just think it was very midline for me, like a three was doing a fantastic job for someone who's never really experienced feelings before, just kind of like oh shit, this is happening. You know, like he did, he resisted it a little bit but he wasn't like disgusting about it. He is what he is and you know he was. He was not the worst he could be just for the sake of being worst or for the sake of getting the job done. He took criticism, you know, when she was like try being nice to Kaz, like the next day he tried and the stupid little imp was just like like this is glorious, his whole life had changed for the better. I don't know, it was just a three for me, I don't. There wasn't anything that really struck out other than his desire to find a different solution and not kill her in a very short amount of time.
Jonathan:Romance.
Ashley:That's where we are.
Jonathan:Yeah, so I would say it was there.
Ashley:It was there, it existed, we saw it.
Jonathan:There were wisps of the smolder that was happening and like it, kind of you know what's coming. It could have been around any quarter, any corner, at any point in the book, but you know this and this and maybe this plays on the spice. So I would say I'll give it four because you felt the tension. There was tension. Yeah, you're right, it was. It was I don't know if it's on it what it wasn't, uncomfortable, didn't have me. I wasn't longing for it, but it was apparent and because of that I'll give it a four.
Kelly:I thought the romance wasn't too bad. I thought it was a nice, a nice change to the usual approach of romantic books where there's a big bad shadow daddy. So it was nice that he actually had a nice soft side that developed and we saw that from his perspective.
Ashley:Like a mediocre shadow daddy.
Kelly:Yeah.
Ashley:Just mid-level.
Kelly:Overall I didn't think the romance was too bad. I thought there was a lot of fun little things in their relationship that you could see where there was some romance. The way they sort of would irritate each other made it seem very realistic. So overall I think the romance was actually pretty decent in this book compared to some other books. So I would say it's a four.
Mari:I basically agree with Kelly. For me, the romance was a four it it was a slow burn. I feel like he fell first and he was very like, confused, and it it changed him. I I don't know if it's just because I've been listening to so much of the wicked soundtrack or because I watched the movie this year, but there were so many instances of this where I was like, because he met her, he was changed for good well, shit, when you put it that way Is that what happened to?
Ashley:you, baby? Is that what happened to you? Because he met her, he was changed for good.
Jonathan:No, I'm still an asshole. This is true.
Mari:And there's the song in the Wicked soundtrack, loathing, which is the way the song is put together. It's almost to a T, it's like a classic love song, except it's about them hating each other. And I feel like that was the beginning of them, where she's blonde, she's perky, she's good why did she bandage my hand, which I also wrote for that scene, total beauty and the beast vibes as I was reading that, that chapter, and then they, they get to become you know. Oh well, maybe we're friends and then maybe we're more than friends and I do feel like he fell first and then she did not trust him and that kind kind of hurt him and I don't think she really got there till the very end.
Mari:But it was a. I felt like it was a good ride. So, yeah, I thought the romance was good. I think it would have been a five if I had felt I could connect to her side of things more. Like I said, I overall I felt a little flat from her side of her perspective, so it was a four for me, very good. Looking forward to the rest of the of the series. Now, what do we think about the spice?
Ashley:there was. There was very minimal spice. For me it's like a two and a half. I'd say two and a half for spice. There was a lot of. There was a lot of tension and there was a lot of. There was a lot of maybe and then there was a close maybe, but then some shit went sideways, right. So I think there's going to be spice later. I didn't find any spice. You didn't find any.
Jonathan:It was salt. Yeah, I didn't go with a one.
Kelly:I mean there was very minimal spice. I think there was, like you know, same thing. There were suggestions of spice. It was definitely the Spice suggestion did tend to seem like it was more of the BDSM type stuff. It was pretty obvious that Ama definitely has some kind of a fetish for being tied up.
Mari:But overall I feel like the Spice was like I don't know, maybe a one and a half or a two. I was going to say probably a one and a half or two for Spice until it got to that chapter 21 with the rope scene in the cage, and I was like, oh okay, I thought that was super well done. I mean, I think overall, as they got to where they liked each other, there was some flirtation. That was very well done. I mean, I think overall, as they got to where they liked each other, there was some flirtation. That was very well done. And there was some suggestion. That was pretty well done. It was very much a.
Mari:It was more of a PG book than I was originally expecting it to be too. But then that one scene bumped it to a three for me because I thought it was very well done. I thought that it portends potential really good scenes for the next two books which are their story, and I think there's like another two books that are side characters. I think one of them is from, like, xander's perspective, so we're going to get to guess a story about him. Yeah, so Spice for me is a three. So do we think it's a kissing book?
Ashley:So I feel like I have to sit this one out just cause I haven't. I'm down to like the last five. I'm I'm in the last five chapters, but I think I have like two or three left. Okay, so I'm going to sit this one out and I will. I will come back.
Jonathan:I'm going to say no, I don't think this one's not a kissing book. I think the whole story has the potential to be a kissing book, but I mean realistically. She fucked everything up from the beginning.
Ashley:I'm not there yet. I'll take your word for it. So no for you.
Kelly:No for me.
Kelly:I actually think this is a kissing book because while she monkey wrenched Damien's original plan to be sure he could have just at any point, just killed her, but the slow building romance and his slowly realizing feelings for meant that he just decided he wasn't going to kill her at first and then eventually, once all of that got realized, I think it made it clear that the main plot of the book, of this book, could not have happened if he hadn't had a romantic attachment to her it's a kissing book for the same reason, like I think that if he had not developed things for her, he would have never gone to get that book to try and like, get it out, get the talisman out of her without killing her, so they would have never been in her town, um, so it would have been a different story, um.
Mari:So I don't think it would have happened the way it did without the feelings, the romantic entanglement if she hadn't tried to steal from him no and touch the talisman.
Jonathan:Would it be? Uh? Would it be a? Would it like, if she wasn't there, everything would have just gone to plan?
Mari:right, yeah, that's what I'm saying like, which is the whole story would have been him going to like free his dad, which is a totally different story, so yeah yeah.
Mari:So this book wouldn't have happened like the things that happen in this book, the main plot points, wouldn't have happened without them getting romantically entangled. You know, one thing that I caught on to was that basically Damien's father and all those and I'm doing air quotes here bad gods or bad demons or whatever, were imprisoned because supposedly they're evil, because they couldn't feel like, they couldn't feel love. That's why they were judged to be the evil. But is that true? Because who? Who made that judgment? Like the king and the people who are looting these trees and and who may be the big bad by the end of the second and third books? Um, and the way that you know, damien's dad was portrayed, doesn't? I don't know, maybe he's changed, but maybe he was this way the whole time, like he isn't portrayed like an unfeeling person, like an unfeeling parent. He calls his son buddy, buddy, like I mean.
Mari:Yeah and he's like oh, you don't have to go today, rest up, you gotta take care of yourself. Yeah, you don't have to do it alone. Yeah, I'm like that doesn't sound like an unfeeling entity, but I mean, I don't know, maybe we're all being fooled, who knows? But to me I'm just like I really wonder if it's. The whole thing is like you know, none of them, none of the bad guys, were actually bad guys. You know what I mean. So I don't know, we'll see. I plan on reading the rest, so I'll let you guys know. Alright, anything else you want to say about this book?
Jonathan:Are you going to read part two?
Mari:Yes, that's what she?
Jonathan:said Ash, are you going to read part two? Are you going to read part one?
Mari:Damn.
Jonathan:Kelly, are you going to read part two? Just throw Ash right under that bus. I don't know if she'll ever crack this puppy open again. I'm not going to read part two, I'll be honest.
Mari:That's fine.
Jonathan:This is up to you.
Mari:The burden lies with you.
Mari:I will accept that mission 100%. I will carry that talisman to the end point. Thanks for listening to Of Swords and Soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check the show notes, rate, review and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. And subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice If it's an option. It helps others to find us. Follow us on Instagram, at ofswordsandsoulmates, or join our Facebook page at ofswordsandsoulmates. Check us out on our website, ofswordsandsoulmatescom, or on YouTube, tiktok and Pinterest the same username.
Mari:If you'd like to offer suggestions for a future episode. Reach out to us on any of those messages or email. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode, follow us on Goodreads at of Swords and Soulmates, or for chapter by chapter interaction on the Fable app at the of Swords and Soulmates book club. More recently, we also have a Tome account and, as you guessed it, it is of Swords and Soulmates. You can find us there too. And last but absolutely not least, we hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode, when we will be discussing that Time I Got Drunk and Saved a Demon by Kimberly Lemming. In the face of global and national forces to stifle diversity celebration. We choose to celebrate Black history. Bye, bye. Thanks for watching.
