Of Swords and Soulmates
Is this a kissing book? Of Swords and Soulmates features two couples (and sometimes more), with varying reading preferences and experiences, as they read, listen, and sometimes watch romantasy stories and discuss plot, fantasy elements, romance, spice, theories, and more. Join us for our non-expert opinions as we discuss, argue, rave, rant, and hopefully entertain. We may just help you find your next reading obsession or at least contribute to that TBR list!
Of Swords and Soulmates
"The Nightmare Before Christmas" - Exploring a Magic Holiday Classic
What if you could transform an ordinary game of Dirty Santa into an unforgettable experience? Join us as we welcome Amy from Maple Grass Design, who shares her enchanting world of "surprise bubbles," meticulously crafted gifts that cater to everyone from D&D enthusiasts to book lovers.
Ever wondered why some books and movies become collector's items? We unpack the allure of limited edition books from publishers like Subterranean Press and the thrill of owning rare, autographed editions. We debate the value and worth of these limited editions for the author and collector.
Our conversation then turns to the timeless charm of "The Nightmare Before Christmas," a film that cleverly overlaps the worlds of Halloween and Christmas. Explore with us the film's creative genesis from Tim Burton's imagination, and how its unique blend of fantastical world-building and intriguing characters continues to captivate audiences year after year. Personal ratings and evolving opinions reveal just how this movie’s magic persists across generations.
We playfully debate whether "The Nightmare Before Christmas" leans more towards a Christmas or Halloween film, and ponder the romantic subplot between Jack and Sally. Wrapping up, we invite our listeners to jump into our literary adventures on Goodreads and Fable, where "Phantasma" leads our current book club discussion. Mark your calendars for our upcoming episode featuring "Jingle All the Slay" by Dakota Cassidy—it's a journey you won't want to miss!
Links from the News Segment and Show (not all were discussed):
- Special guest today – Amy from Maple Grass Design
- Makes unique gifts for book lovers
- Etsy Store
- Black Dagger Brotherhood series by JR Ward has cast its leads
- Cards Against Prythian – A Court of Thorns and Roses Cards Against Humanity edition
- Faecrate Opus is releasing the last 4 books in the Duskwalker Brides series
- Link to FaeCrate
- They’ll match the first part of the series and will have embossed hardcovers and digitally sprayed edges and signed tip-in pages
- Early access is Dec 11th at 5pm EST - Public sale is Dec 12 at 5pm EST
- Link to The Nightmare Before Christmas original poem
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Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants. The hosts make no claim to be literary experts and their opinions are exactly that opinions. All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and is being used under the Fair Use Doctrine.
Mari:Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch and discuss romanticist stories. I'm one of your hosts, mari, and with me I have a special guest today Amy. Hi, amy, and Ash and Jonathan say hi.
Jonathan:Hi, hey, I'm here. It's JP. What's going on, amy? It's been so excited. This is going to be amazing New friends. New friends, old friends, same Many friends.
Mari:Many friends, new and old friends, old and new friend, all the friends. So today we're going to be discussing the Nightmare Before Christmas movie, but first we're going to actually first we're going to talk to Amy a little bit about why she's on. So Amy has a business called Maple Grass Design. Tell us a little bit about it.
Amy:Maple Grass Design I make surprise bubbles. It started out a friend of mine went on a trip and gave me this little ball and so I'm kind of a child at heart, so I'm unraveling it and it has all these little toys. I'm like this is really great. I feel like we should have these for adults, and so I started making those earlier this year. I just did my first market back in october. Um, but make surprise bubbles for children, teens and adults.
Ashley:I like the name.
Mari:And you did like witch and like D&D themed ones earlier, right.
Amy:The D&D ones are my most popular. And then I've got witches for the younger group. I've got some for adult witches and currently I'm working on one for plant lovers and krampus, which I'm very excited to launch that within the next few days nice.
Jonathan:Are these sort of like? Are these like different layers, like wrapped up in different layers?
Amy:and as you unravel this, it it reveals a surprise yeah, so inside there's like a core bubble and it has, like your main prizes. And then I hand cut all these layers of crepe paper and as you unravel each layer, you find different prizes until you get to the center and is this sealed with like a wax stamp? Yes, it is.
Jonathan:That's such a classy touch.
Amy:Thank you. Well, you know, the surprise bubble is really fun and I just I was like you know, adults need one, but they make so many of them. I wanted to have, you know, quality prizes. I wanted it to be where adults could enjoy it, and now I'm in the process of trying to make my own jewelry. It comes with, some of them comes with scratch off, like oracles, and some are funny and some are serious. So I hope that everybody has a fun, interactive time when they're playing with them.
Jonathan:Absolutely yeah. What are some of the things that are inside of the bubble? I'm looking at some of the pictures. See, is that tea?
Amy:Everybody likes tea, so it really depends. So I've got one for bookworms. Um, it has like a bookish pen, a bag of tea, a retro little fuzzy worm gum stickers. The dnd the one that's the most popular. It's got like um dnd themed uh pen. It's got like a it's mini dice. It's got a D20 prize stickers, lucky amulets, oracles, paperclips, all kinds of things. It just depends on the type of bubble.
Mari:Like the theming yeah.
Jonathan:This looks really cool.
Amy:Thank you, I like it. They're really fun to make. I really enjoyed it.
Mari:And they're fun little gifts to give if you're going to visit someone or for stocking stuffers. I went to visit some D&D friends friends who are all up into D&D and I brought them one and they enjoyed it. They enjoyed unwrapping it and having little things they could use in their game.
Jonathan:Yeah, I feel like if you're doing a gift exchange or if you have a book club, like a gaming club, that you could bring this into like that random. Where are they? Like? I don't know what they're called. They call it like drunk santa games or whatever they're called oh yeah, like a white elephant dirty santa goes by very many names. Yeah, yeah there we go, there we go.
Mari:I wasn't too far off, bring a krampus a krampus surprise ball to a dirty santa game yeah that's what i'm'm saying.
Jonathan:That's why, yeah, that could be cool, that could be cool, and then you bring it in. I think this would be one of those gifts that, like people would fight over. That's the one I want. Don't take that from me. Dibs on that.
Mari:So if people want to order one, and while we're talking about it, if people want to order one, it would be Maple Grass Design on Etsy. Yes, on Etsy, that's the best place to do it. Yes, so Maple Grass Design on Etsy. We'll have a link in our show notes too. All right, so we're going to be talking about the Nine Before Christmas movie, but before we do, as usual, we're going to go over a little bit of news. The first news I have is there's a vampire paranormal romance series called the Black Dagger Brotherhood, which is fairly popular. It's by JR Ward. I've not read it, but I've had it recommended by several people. Ash or Jonathan, have either of you guys read it or heard of it?
Ashley:I don't think I've read it, but I think she might have been at Romanticicon, was she? The name sounds really familiar.
Mari:Ooh, I don't know. There were a lot of people there. It was very overwhelming so many people. I feel like we should have had like a map, yeah, yeah, a little like check off.
Jonathan:We should have had an author map. Yeah, like a coloring book or a little scratch off yeah that'd be cool.
Mari:but jr ward wrote the black dagger brotherer Brotherhood, which is a series of popular vampire romance books written in 2014. They were optioned, or whatever, for a TV show and so they've actually gotten to the stage where they're doing casting for the TV show. So a bunch of the main cast, the main actors, were cast recently. I think it's going to be on Prime and I think it's set to actually air in 2025.
Ashley:Well, that's exciting.
Mari:Yeah, that could be fun. I'd have to read the books. I have no opinion on the books because I literally haven't read them, but a lot of people recommend them, so they're probably decent. The other thing I had was Cards Against Prithian a Court of Thorns and. Roses Cards Against Humanity game edition. Has anyone played Cards Against Humanity or do you know what it is?
Jonathan:I have yes, I've made many people feel uncomfortable. Yeah yeah, that's kind of the point of the game for sure.
Mari:Yeah, so basically add stuff from ACOTAR to that. So, and not just ACOTAR, it's the whole series. There's stuff from the whole series because it's from multiple books and some of the example cards that they had it was stuff from several of the books, not just the first book. It's limited edition. It's $39.95 on sale now. It looks like really fun to play with people who know a little bit about the genre or have read it. But it's the same game, same type of game. If any listener has not played or heard of Cards Against Humanity, go look it up. It's a fun game. I get to know you kind of game with people. So once you're playing with the right people, everyone is, uh, in the right mindset. It's a fun game yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Jonathan:It's a totally good party game to play as well and really it'll make you think so. Cards against prithee, and it's what's that about? What's prithee? And?
Mari:oh, you don't, okay, I'm just playing. I'm just going around yeah, I was like how fast are you reading? You didn't catch that, but anyone who hasn't read Akataraprithian is the Akatar land, because Amy's sitting here with the little question mark over her head.
Jonathan:Oh, she didn't know either no.
Mari:And the box looks like the revamped covers of the first Akatar book, so it's like red with the yellow wolf figure on it. Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty, it's interesting.
Jonathan:I like that depiction of the wolf.
Mari:Yeah, yeah. The last thing I had in the news is that Fey Crate is doing another opus thing that they do and it's the last four books in the Dustwalker Bride series by Opal Rain. So they had done the first four books a while back and then they did. For the first time ever, they've never re-released their Opus series. They re-released it recently, the first four books. I was very excited because I got in and I got them, and so now the last four books because the series is complete are going to be coming out. Walkers is they described it as a monster romance series with a possessive cinnamon rolls, which I think is accurate.
Jonathan:Okay, right, yeah yeah I learned about cinnamon rolls earlier yeah, we did.
Mari:We learned about cinnamon rolls last episode. Yeah, these, this new like for the last four of the series are gonna be. They're gonna match the first ones. If you have the first ones, it's gonna be embossed hardcovers, digitally sprayed edges, signed tip-in pages. Early access is going to happen december 11th, 5 pm eastern for people who bought the first four and then on december 12th it's going to be any leftovers for anybody else who wants them. December 12th at 5 pm eastern time. It's going to be $120 set and it will ship in May or June of 2025.
Jonathan:So far, I think a lot of times the model is a pre-order, which I'm not against because you want to know what you're getting. I think it's good to have If you're going to do a limited edition sell them out. Sell them out. That's what I say. And the only way to sell them out and to drive up the uniqueness of it is to do limited runs. That's good, good, yes, I approve ew, what do you think, ash?
Ashley:I don't like limited runs. I want to access all of the things all of the time, because sometimes we're late to the party. She doesn't like going to limited runs.
Jonathan:I want to access all of the things all of the time, because sometimes we're late to the party. She doesn't like going to TJ Maxx and not seeing the Stitch gingerbread jar.
Ashley:I'm so mad.
Jonathan:She's so mad. That's the kind of stuff she's afraid of missing out on. I'm like, hey, you know, if you get in in time, it's cool, it works.
Mari:I think I'm with Ash honestly, because I think I'm with Ash honestly, because I think I would love it for these to be available for people who, like, maybe discover the series like two years from now, you know, or something. It would be nice to be able to have access to buying that special series, like I know why they can't, because they're limited edition and I'm sure that you know the artists and the way they print them and actually signing them, all that stuff it's. It's gotta be limited edition just by the, the definition of everything that's that's involved in it. But it would be nice to still be able to buy a pretty edition If you happen to be like, like I said, late to the game.
Jonathan:You know Okay.
Mari:That's. That's just my opinion. But you're right, it does drive up the cost when they're limited edition. But I don't know. I wonder about the whole driving up the cost because it's not like the artists are getting the benefit of that. The person who wrote the book isn't getting the benefit of it going on eBay for $300. The people, the artists, who designed the covers aren't getting the benefit of that.
Jonathan:So I don't know that I care so much about it being worth more I was talking about this with a friend earlier today and the like.
Jonathan:I'm looking around this room here and I know that I've got some books that I have that aren't coming out until the new year. I have five, six copies of them on order from different places and there's not even anything different about them. So we're talking like, uh, there's, there's a few that I have. I have hardcovers, autographed special editions, the paperbacks, you know. So it's like in my mind I'm thinking and the audiobooks. So I have these things in different formats.
Jonathan:I said to them is there any, are there any other things that you like, pop culture, elements that you buy the same thing over and over and over again in different formats? And he said video games. He said I buy one for each console that I use. Sometimes I buy it for whatever Nintendo system, or then over to PC etc. He says sometimes just like to have them for different devices. And he brought up Lord of the Rings and he says you know, I have it on Blu-ray, on Blu-ray 4K, have it on DVD, I'm going to get it on this next format. He's like I'm not going to watch them, I just have them.
Mari:Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I think the artists and the people who did it get money in each of those formats. The problem is, when you have a format that's already out let's say there's I don't know, I have no idea, a frame of reference, but let's say there's 5,000 of these sets that are sold. If that's all that's ever sold, and, like I said, three years from now they're going for $300 a set instead of $120 a set on eBay or on some other used book kind of thing, who is that benefiting?
Jonathan:The original buyer or the current owner?
Mari:Right, not so I guess it's a boon. It's like, I guess, uh, people who collect coins or or hoard gold or whatever, like if it's a way of of maybe the other person being a bookseller, book collector, um aspect, but not so much the original creator, so yeah, I mean it benefits somebody. I guess I'm just not that interested in that, not anything against it. It's just I guess not something that I'm Not your jam.
Mari:Yeah, it's not my jam, Like I'm all about supporting the artists, the writers and the illustrators and all that kind of stuff.
Jonathan:How often are you selling off pieces of your book collection?
Mari:Never. That's why I'm not interested in that aspect of it. I guess If I have multiple copies of a book, I search out and find in all the people I know someone who I think might enjoy it and usually end up giving it away.
Jonathan:Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. The secondary market. If there were five, how many of these were going to be there? Like 50, 500?.
Mari:I don't know. That's why I said an arbitrary number. I have no idea.
Jonathan:But if there was a limited run so let's say there was a thousand books, 500 books, a hundred books, doesn't matter and they make that sale, that initial sale what percentage of these would ultimately make it to the secondary market? My guess, like off the top of my head, is going to be like single digit percentage.
Mari:yeah, I think I read something that what ends up happening with these super specialized books like this is they generally don't like it's. Another company that does something like this is subterranean press. Subterranean press does some gorgeous, very limited edition, highly stylized, beautiful books, often signed like they did a nettle and bone one, and we're talking like 300 books for a book. And they're gorgeous and they're limited run. You never see those for sale on the like in the market anywhere, unless it's like an estate sale where literally someone died. So it's not like you're going to see a turnover anytime in the next few years, like if you see these, it'll be years on down the road, I think, because I mean, if you've gotten invested on that, you're not just going to turn around and sell it. For the most part, Exactly, it's a trophy.
Jonathan:I can live with these limited runs being limited so that I can own a limited piece. Like I'm actively looking for a title, an autographed title, I don't need to have this autographed title. I have the author's assigned edition of the author's book, but I want a matching set.
Mari:We're all collectors in our own way. We have different things. It's all good. Any other news anybody wanted to bring up?
Jonathan:I don't have any news myself.
Ashley:Do you actually have any news? No, no, I don't know what day it is anymore. You guys like tell me about it, the days. I don't understand. I don't understand how thanksgiving's in a week I don't like our next three weekends are booked up. There's not enough minutes. Yeah, no, I have. I have no news. Like as soon as it hits, something else hits and I don't remember it. Yeah, I got nothing all good, all good.
Mari:Okay, so going into the movie. This was a jonathan suggestion, right?
Jonathan:I, if I'm remembering I definitely corrupted you I mean I love this movie.
Mari:I definitely have always loved this movie. But yeah, I'm pretty sure it was your suggestion to do it and I know Amy jumped to that because Amy is a fellow Halloween lover. Yeah, definitely.
Jonathan:I don't know what would make her excited.
Mari:This is a Christmas movie yes, it is both, it is all the things.
Jonathan:I should let me just put this preface out here for amy uh, uh, I'm going. My intention is to be objective initially, but I'll follow it up with a subjective debate.
Mari:So buckle up. All good, all good, um, okay. So this movie was originally released october 29th of 1993. I'm going to read a little synopsis and then we can get into talking about it. Jack Skellington, the pumpkin king of Halloween Town, is bored with doing the same thing every year for Halloween and is so taken with the idea of Christmas that he tries to get the resident bats, ghouls and goblins of Halloween Town to help him put on a Christmas instead of Halloween. But alas, they can't get it quite right.
Jonathan:It sucks when you have subpar labor.
Mari:Is that what it is? Not the kidnapping et cetera. It was the labor issue.
Jonathan:Yeah, you know what it is. It's the. The, the keeper of the vision, did not share it appropriately or take enough time. It was a hurried project. The deadlines were ramped up. You only have you. Really, realistically, you only have what? 54 days to pull this off that. I need project timelines of at least minimum 90 days.
Mari:You know I was reading up how the movie came to be. Tim Burton got the idea when he was looking at a window display and they were taking down the Halloween decorations and putting up Christmas decorations. It was like both up there at the same time. And then he decided to go home and write a new version of the Night Before Christmas. So there's a poem that the movie is based off of that Tim Burton wrote. There's a link in our there'll be a link in our notes to the poem. It's long but I'm going to read you like the first two or so stanzas. It was late one fall in Halloween land and the air had quite a chill. Against the moon, a skeleton sat alone upon a hill. He was tall and thin, with a bat bow tie. Jack Skellington was his name. He was tired and bored. In Halloween land Everything was always the same. And it goes on like, like. It's a long poem, it's a cool read.
Jonathan:It basically outlines like the whole movie in the poem Is the poem that cost Tim Burton his job at Disney.
Mari:No, actually it was artistic differences yeah.
Ashley:Tim Burton, weren't the artistic differences the Nightmare Before Christmas? You know, I don't know, I know it was like um yeah, tim burton, weren't the artistic differences the nightmare before christmas?
Mari:you know, I don't know I know it was like um he was owned this.
Jonathan:They bought the story from him and then, I think, marie's right. The artistic differences came out later and he left without oh, I was asking.
Mari:Yeah, kelly would know I I'm not great with the trivia, but I know I watched. We watched something and it had like the history of like how Tim Burton was doing stuff and then he kind of split off on his own. It was about like that era of Disney where like they were doing the Black Cauldron and all that kind of stuff and then how it evolved into like some of the Tim Burton stuff. But I'm not great with the details. Kelly's the trivia brain. Kelly's the big brain of the household trivia brain. Kelly's the big brain of the household. Stuff goes in and out of my brain like a colander. Nothing stays.
Jonathan:This is not a Tim Burton film.
Mari:I mean it's sold and ticketed. Say more words husband Tim Burton's the Nightmare Before Christmas. His name is on it.
Jonathan:Yeah, but it's not his story. It's his story initially, but the film he's not the director. He might have a production credit. It had a totally different director.
Ashley:I feel like we watched the wrong thing in preparation for this. We should have watched the documentary.
Jonathan:Instead of the movie.
Ashley:Yeah.
Jonathan:Ah very, there's some like, and so some Tim Burton films kind of get twisted around quite a bit.
Mari:Henry Selick is the director.
Jonathan:Yeah, yeah, he's a director. So, like in my mind, I keep thinking, keep thinking to myself this is it's more his movie even than it is tim's. Like tim had the. I call him tim. I we're on the first name basis yeah sometimes you know when we're drinking it's timmy.
Jonathan:Um, all right, you know if we're out on the town team. Um so, tim, if you're out there listening, you speak up. If you're not, and you totally agree with me, say nothing. The yes. I feel like Tim kind of passed the torch on to say was Henry the H train, and so he took this baby on.
Mari:Yeah, I mean he didn't direct it, but I feel, I feel like aesthetically and the bare bones of it was like the basic story is very Tim Burton.
Jonathan:Yeah, yeah, he's, he's foundationally. Yeah, he planted the seed that Henry watered.
Ashley:The skin creepy.
Mari:Yeah, so what did you think overall, jonathan, your overall rating.
Jonathan:Overall rating. This is a tough film for me, uh, as you know is it scary? Uh, no, I'm not. It's not scary to me. I'm just not a super. I like villains. I'm just not a super halloween fan. Um, and I don't know how much I'm into like, uh, claymation.
Ashley:Interesting.
Jonathan:Yeah, but like all claymation or just this 100%, like you know I'm never, you're not going to see me running around with like a Gumby and pokey kind of is that why you wouldn't put my root up? I don't, yeah, I don't like it.
Mari:The truth comes out it comes out, it does.
Jonathan:There you go. Let's get to the root cause here. So what are you rating it? It's the clay. I'm going to give it a. I'm going to give it a four.
Ashley:Okay, that's fairly high Most.
Jonathan:Christmas movies for me are a five. Just so you know. Like 90% of Christmas movies are a four, this is a four. So because it's partially a Halloween movie no, it's the clay, it's the clay.
Ashley:It's the clay Gotcha. What do you think, ash, this is not my favorite movie, but I do appreciate movies that have two big holidays in it. Right, because Halloween means themes. I like a good theme. Halloween's not in this one. Shut up, it's not your turn, my turn. I like a good theme. Halloween's not in this one. Shut up, it's not your turn, my turn. So I like a good theme and I think thematically the movie is done very, very well, so it's like it. It's a three for me, like I could. I could go without it and be perfectly fine, but if it's on, I'll watch it and I might sing to it, but I don't know all the words amy, what do you think would you give it as overall rating?
Amy:I would have to say because, you know, I re-watched it for this and it's a lot different watching it in the 90s and then watching it now when I'm almost 50. So I would have said, if you'd asked me, you know, years ago, I would have said, oh, this is you know five. This is a great movie, this is a classic. But now that I re-watched it, maybe a three and a half.
Jonathan:I don't know any of you people like. That is a twist. How is my rating higher than yours?
Amy:I don't know who any of you are anymore.
Mari:So for me it was a five. I have watched this movie usually at least once a year, if not more, like every year. Usually I'll have it up while I put up like Halloween decorations or take down Halloween decorations, because to me it's this perfect like in-between movie. So sometimes I'll watch it getting ready for Halloween stuff. Sometimes I'll watch it in November as a November movie because, let's face it, there's not a lot of November movies. And then sometimes it'll be like Christmas time when I watch it. It's to me it's just.
Mari:It hits this perfect sweet spot of like a cutesy Halloween and a spooky, dark Christmas and both of those are like the yin and yang of my personality. Like, if it had had Krampus in it, it would be like a 10. Sandy Claus is close, it's close, but it's not Krampus. But yeah, I love the music in it. Like, love the music in it, I listen to the music in it. Like, love the music in it. I listen to the music outside of the movie. Um, I've choreographed, I've choreographed. This is halloween. Um, my troop and I dance to this is halloween, while balancing pumpkins on our heads. So yeah, yeah I love.
Mari:I love this movie. I love the vibes of it. I don't mind Claymation, I think, to me. I find Claymation really cool in that it seems like so much work. I look at Claymation the way I look at the people who do pointillism art, where it's like, oh my God, all those little dots, so much work. So I appreciate that aspect of it. I generally like Tim Burton stuff, I like the dark, creepy stuff and I like the idea of all the holidays coming together. So for me it's a five, I accept.
Mari:Okay, it was going to be a five. Even if you didn't, it is a strong five for me. Fantasy world building.
Jonathan:What do you think, jonathan? I liked the fantasy, the world building. I like that. It's this that each Halloween each town has is dedicated to a specific holiday. And the portals that Jack Stum was on, the portals. I like that. Everybody owns their own shit, so I'm going to give that. I'm going to give the world building and especially because, like it reinvents, like I like Oogie Boogie, I like the idea of the lock, shock and barrel, I like the idea of all the different characters, including the mayor who's thinking about the mayor, a two-faced mayor. I mean modern-day two-faces. I get that.
Mari:Makes so much sense now, as an adult, I can't be expected to make a decision for myself. I'm only an elected official.
Jonathan:Right, yeah. So I'm going to say world building is high up there for me. I'm going to give world building a Ash.
Ashley:Yeah, no, I have to agree, I have to agree with all of that. Again, thematically right, Fantasy, I think every character is unique. You're not seeing, you know, stand-in duplicates. It's not copy and paste, right. They didn't skip corners on that at all. The songs were 100% original and they're catchy as shit. But yeah, thematically, you know what caught me this most recent rewatch? The man said Kentucky and I was like what does he know about Kentucky? Is this like a whole United States of America? What version of Earth are they in that they're just Halloween. But they have Kentucky, Paris and France in the songs. I was so confused I had never heard that part before. So this is like a real life situation where there are places other than just this Halloween town, Did you?
Jonathan:think it was Britannia. Yes, maybe we're messing with real life here no, baby, it's fantasy. There are ghosts and werewolves well, let me say this santa is a ghost begin no, no, that's a different topic of conversation.
Ashley:Hold, please, um. So yeah, the fantasy is a five. Like the actual world, building their purpose. You know their individual personalities, the jokes and the songs. For me, like it's not my like. Again, it's not my favorite movie, I'm probably not actively going to watch it, but it's enjoyable If it's on in the background it's on the every year watch list.
Jonathan:For whom? For us, no it's.
Ashley:We watch it every year, but accidentally you watched it with savannah. You turned it on I did not turn it.
Jonathan:It's an every year watch what do you think, amy?
Amy:in terms of world building. Yeah, in terms of world building and fantasy, it's, it's definitely a five. I mean the, the thought of trying to merge these two holidays and try to have them, you know, converge. Like they're like oh, you know he's trying to explain Christmas to them. They're like, oh, what's in the box? Like pox, like you just can't. You know. The idea that they try to merge these things in such a beautiful but funny way I really enjoyed.
Mari:Like their own perspective on it, yeah, I give it a five for fantasy, for world building. I want to say this is the first story I remember experiencing where there was like a holiday town other than like North Pole, because, yeah, you've got Christmas, north Pole, but that there would be a Halloween land. And then also, obviously, there is like a Thanksgiving land because there was a tree with a turkey. There's an Easter land because they kidnapped the Easter bunny. Yeah, like I want to know more about this world. Yeah, yeah, I would watch or read a story about each of these crazy lands. I absolutely would. I very much like the world building in this. So five for me. Surprise.
Jonathan:So, touching on that, I don't think that Thanksgiving land deserves a land.
Mari:Yeah, I think giving thanks is a good thing. I think American Thanksgiving is highly problematic. Like November, is a great month to read stories by indigenous peoples. I highly recommend that.
Jonathan:Yeah yeah, my thoughts were not as sensitive as yours. They were like very helicopter view of like Christmas as being a global holiday, easter is being a global holiday, halloween a global holiday, and then Thanksgiving Western Hemisphere.
Mari:Yeah, I think there's the idea of if you think of Thanksgiving as a harvest, like a harvest festival that expands it a little bit more to more cultures, Because I think every agrarian culture would have celebration of the harvest.
Jonathan:Could you spell that word for me?
Mari:A-G-R-A-R-I-A-N. Agrarian. Did I mention I was a spelling bee champion?
Jonathan:I did not know. I did not know that. Did you have to?
Mari:though I had to.
Jonathan:I just had to.
Mari:I won a skiing trip because I won the spelling bee for my school and I won a skiing trip and then I got pneumonia and couldn't go. Yeah, I got pneumonia, bronchitis, asthma, like something happened to me. I swear every year of my life growing up Like I had the worst breathing problems ever.
Amy:Wow, yeah, I'm so sorry.
Mari:It is what it is. I got to go skiing in other places, so it was fine. It was fine. I can't even remember what the last word was. I remember the last word was really hard and I can't remember. This was a long time ago in a land far, far away called Kansas. Oh yeah, away called Kansas, oh.
Ashley:We like Kansas.
Jonathan:We go to Kansas every year. I love you. Kansas. Like is extreme. I just got the alert that we get to go back to Kansas.
Mari:I got that alert a few hours ago I heard Ash has grown from here.
Ashley:So excited I couldn't find the right gift today.
Jonathan:We booked a two-star hotel. Hopefully those two stars are back. I couldn't find the right gift today. We booked a two-star hotel. Hopefully those two stars are back.
Ashley:I hope it's the same two stars though, because it's different two stars, Really sad.
Mari:Romance. Romance on the movie. What do you think, Jonathan?
Jonathan:None, Actually. You know what I lie.
Ashley:The very last scene there was almost hand-holding in a snowy it's not about that slow burn.
Jonathan:It was a hundred and fourteen minutes slow burn. I'm gonna give it or what is it now? But yeah, we're gonna give it one star one one. Moravian star okay many points yeah all the points.
Ashley:I'm yeah, I'm gonna agree this. This, this movie was not about. This movie was like spooky holiday wizard of oz for me. Like there, this was not about. This was about, maybe, friendships and trusting yourself.
Amy:This was'd say a one, amy, what do you think? Same, I would say it's one star because she was into him, right, but he pays no attention to her. And I mentioned to you, you know, yesterday that we're watching this movie. If you have ADHD, you get it. It seemed like this movie was a metaphor for having this really strong ADHD hyperfocus. And so like he hyperfocused on Christmas and then he couldn't accomplish it in two hours after spending like 550 bucks, and now he's completely over it and everyone around him is super glad it's over. And so now he's like oh, and there's you now. So that's what it felt like, okay, um, I this other hobby failed yeah yeah
Amy:moving on to the next hobby, hi, the rebound the face, jonathan does I feel so called out you think I don't know I I.
Mari:I thought there was romance in it. To me it was, I would say, three and a half romance. I feel like she had feelings about him and that's why she was trying to stop him and, you know, save him from himself. And then towards the end, like when he saved her from Oogie Boogie, when he saved her from Oogie Boogie and a lot of it may be just because I love so much the scene at the end where they're on that little curly cliff overlooking the pumpkin patch, and it's simply meant to be. I have a little locket that's got them on it that says simply meant to be. That I've had for over a decade. I think it took them a while to get there because they weren't in the right in the same place at the same time on the journey. But I feel like there was a cute little little romance, um subplot.
Ashley:So she was definitely stalking him right like that's kind of what we do best when we feel, because I was I was thinking about that.
Amy:You know it's. It's kind of romantic, but in a way like okay, first of all, she literally throws herself out of a multi-story building to like go bring him a snack and she's obsessed with him. She's not using osha approved gear for all these potions and things she's trying to perform elder abuse with, and then she picks this flower and it turns into a Christmas tree and it burns and this is like a vision, but I really think it was a hallucination, for maybe all the other things like the traumatic brain injury yeah, amy.
Jonathan:And Amy. That's why Ashley and I live in a ranch home now, because I didn't want to risk it. Yeah, I did. I did get those vibes, I'm watching it, and when you're a kid you're watching it like oh yeah, this is happening. But when you're an adult and you look back, I like that's some really, that's some honest behavior.
Mari:Well, I mean she was. She was being kept against her will by Finkelstein, who was like you're mine, I created you, You're my thing.
Jonathan:You're my Rapunzel in the tower, yeah. He got himself a new object by the end. Yeah, he did.
Mari:Do you know who played the voice of Finkelstein, the Dr Finkelstein the mad scientist? Have you guys seen National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation Of?
Jonathan:course have I.
Mari:Yeah, he can quote it to you. So William Hickey the old, oh, you can hear a dump truck.
Jonathan:You couldn't hear a dump truck.
Mari:Yes.
Jonathan:Can you hear it? He died.
Mari:Oh, and while we're talking about voices, do you know who did the voice of Jack Skellington?
Jonathan:No, wasn't it a singer of some sort?
Mari:No, well, kind of, there's two voices, so Jack Skellington had two voices and Sally had one. So Jack Skellington's sung parts are done by Danny Elfman. So all the singing that the pumpkin are done by Danny Elfman. So all the singing that the Jack and the Pumpkin King does is Danny Elfman, but the spoken parts it's Chris Sarandon, who played Prince Humperdinck in the Princess Bride. Yeah, prince Humperdinck is Jack Skellington.
Ashley:It's such a. It's that's so hard to picture.
Mari:Yes, it is. And then, sally, her voice is done by Catherine O'Hara, who was the mom in the original Beetlejuice Well, I guess in both Beetlejuices and the mom in Schitt's Creek yeah, she did the voice and she sung. She did both singing and the spoken parts and then she also did the voice of I can never remember with Stock Lock and Barrel the witch, whichever one the witch is of, stock Lock and Barrel, stock Shock Shock, whichever one the witch is of those. She did the voice for that too, catherine O'Hara is like super talented.
Jonathan:She is.
Ashley:Because don't they go? Lock, shock, and Barrel Probably, oh wait.
Jonathan:Is she is? Don't they go lock shock in barrel probably. Oh wait, is she the?
Mari:do you know who did the voice of lock?
Jonathan:you know, pw so unprepared paul rubens oh yes, you're right, it almost looks like him too. Yeah, you know what I feel like? Barrel is the most shit on character.
Mari:Yeah, nobody's running around being like let me be more like barrel so what do we think about the spice spiciness of this situation, Jonathan?
Jonathan:Spice. It was like I wish there was spice. There's no spice.
Mari:You want claymation spice.
Jonathan:Well, I'm saying Gumby has pokey. Eee, I'm not going to go with. I don't have spice, maybe visions of gumdrops, but no spice. I can't openly give this a spice rating. That's difficult, you know what? Yeah, I'm going to give it spice rating only because at the end I think there was that new charge nurse was maybe picking up some extra food. She was picking up some extra shifts, shift, she was doing some. So we're going to get, we'll go ahead and we'll give it a faint star.
Mari:Okay, the suggestion. What do you think Ash?
Ashley:Yeah, no, there wasn't any spice in this. I don't even think there there was spice. Yeah, also, jack's pants are really tight. There's not much to see there. There's no spice. He's got a massive bone.
Jonathan:Massive boner. I mean, is that what you're? That's what you turned this movie off. It never occurred to me to look at Jack Scratch. My mind is the one in the gut.
Mari:So do you guys know that there's like a spicy retelling of this right? Do you guys know there's a book? It doesn't surprise me yeah there's a book called Stitches by Violet Taylor. It was published fairly recently. Yeah, september, september of this year. I read it. It's not like out of this world, but if you want a spicy, it is a spicy Night Before Christmas retelling. If that is something that is missing in your life, it does exist. Be aware.
Jonathan:Interesting Dark monster romance reimagining darkly depraved monsters.
Mari:It's the story of the Skeleton King and his stitched-up queen. A dark reimagining of a Halloween favorite, stitches is a dark monster romance. Reimagining it contains graphic violence and sexually explicit content. Check the author's website for full list of content warnings. Asterisk, asterisk, asterisk. Um, yeah, it's, it was fine, it existed. It's a thing, it exists in the world, um, and now? Now we're all aware of it. Yeah, ab.
Amy:Spice. Yeah, I had the same track that Jonathan did. I'm like there was no Spice, except for that little kind of hint that you get at the end with Dr Finkelstein's new wife and then she has like half his brain. So I'm like she's kind of half him. So when someone tells him to go himself, he is, he's literally doing it. Hmm, half his brain. So I'm like she's kind of half him. So when someone tells him to go himself, he is he's literally doing it.
Ashley:Hmm, God that went in such a direction I. I didn't see it coming.
Jonathan:It's such a man.
Mari:You know that's like the that matters in your own hands Right. That's like the whole discussion with like the Loki stuff, with the variants like Loki and Sylvie right, is he in love with himself? Are they in love themselves?
Ashley:that whole narcissistic yeah yeah, see the whole like identical twin thing. Right, like the whole twin concept of Game of Thrones taught us anything. Yeah, I don't know why. I have less of a problem with that for someone like Loki, but more of a problem for Dr Finkelstein.
Jonathan:I don't understand the reference that's probably for the best.
Ashley:Okay, you'll think differently of me that's weird don't marinate on it I'm not. There's a good cruise on pass so I I for spice.
Mari:I I like wrote zero down, I was like zero question mark. Yeah, I agree, there's. There's no spice to be had, which is fine. It's still a good story. Um, do we think it's a kissing book or kissing story?
Jonathan:you know I went back and watched this over and over again, to like at the at the over and over. Like some parts, I'll watch over and over again. Um, and I was trying to figure out, like the, because I couldn't pop this one through the calculator. I felt inappropriate if I did so. I thought how could I?
Mari:I need to just go back. Amy, do you know what the calculator is? No, tell Amy what the calculator is.
Jonathan:Amy, I enjoy, I am a freak in the sheets, the spreadsheets, and I enjoy using Excel a whole bunch. And in order for me to help me, guide me and determine if a book that we're reading qualifies as a kissing book, I have an algorithm established and it's just, you know, it's based on a series of questions and qualifiers that rate it and give it a percentage and tells me like, hey, is this smut or spicy? And so most books that we read, I drop it through that filter and come out with a result. And I just couldn't do that. Part of me was like I don't want to put this book through the calculator because I want it to be more wholesome to me. Yeah, um, so I think I defaulted to the idea of if we remove sally from the story does is the outcome any different? And I the point of like the.
Jonathan:The crux for me was when uggie meets his demise because he's got he's. So uggie's got santa and he's got sally strapped to the thing, he's rolling the dice and he gets snake eyes and stuff like that. But it's not really like she doesn't save the day. Jack does. The old switcheroo at the last minute pops up and Jack doesn't really take out Oogie. Oogie's responsible for his own demise. He got his burlap thread caught right. So I'm thinking to myself no, this is not a kissing book. There's a reward of a kiss, or the concept of one at the end, but I'm going to go ahead and say this is not a kissing book. Final answer.
Mari:Ash, what do you think?
Ashley:That was such an impressive answer with details and explanations and data.
Jonathan:There was data, there was data Spreadsheets.
Ashley:I feel very less than um no, this was not. This was not a kissing book amy yeah, definitely not.
Amy:Uh, the whole entire movie could have done without sally, which I found very surprising re-watching the whole movie. Um, she, you know, she tries to stop him, you know, initially from from doing the whole christmas thing and it fails. So I just don't see any point of her being in the movie.
Mari:Yeah, no, I I agree with you guys. I I don't think it's a kissing book. I like the, I like the romance that's in it, but I don't think it's central to the plot. I agree, like if she didn't exist, I think it probably would have still more or less gone down the same way. Overall, I don't think the story would have changed dramatically.
Amy:Yeah, I agree. I think if it had an element where they were together in the beginning and then this obsession strained their relationship and then the failure of this mission he had bringing them back together, that would have changed it a little bit.
Mari:Yeah that'd be an interesting story. Write that. Uh, anything else anybody wants to say about um nightmare for christmas?
Jonathan:yeah, I'll throw this, uh, this last bit down here. I can definitely provide evidence of this being a christmas movie, and it would be hard objective evidence. However, I like to think that anything can be any type of celebration to any bought anyone. So if you told me that you watch rudolph the red nose reindeer on october 31st and your family has done that traditionally and you qualify that as a halloween movie, then I would wholeheartedly accept that as an answer I feel like you would not I would have to, because I feel like you would debate it.
Ashley:I would debate it within the guidelines that are inclusive of what I'm saying Right here and right now, but next time no.
Jonathan:Keep these in mind. Hold my feet to the fire for this one. If I were to win, if I were to present all this evidence, there's a conclusive argument that states that this is a christmas movie, not a halloween movie. And they win that argument. What do I achieve? I hurt, I take something from no I yeah, like personally I don't care.
Mari:I my answer when people ask is this a christmas movie or a halloween movie? Literally my answer because kelly will ask me this sometimes is yes.
Jonathan:That's my answer.
Amy:Because it really is all of those for me, there was one kind of little tipping part in re-watching it, because usually I would say you know you could watch it. To me you can watch it any time of year, because there's a moral to that. But the fact that he goes through all this, he's in Halloween town, he's kind of tired of it. And then he goes through this trial because he wants to be something different. I want to be. You know, have this Christmas and then Christmas fails and ultimately he realizes that Halloween he's happy about it again. He realizes that Halloween is so much better than Christmas. Yeah, I agree, that's the moral of this movie.
Mari:That is the moral of the movie.
Amy:This straight up just feels, like.
Jonathan:That's the moral of this movie. That is the moral of the movie. I didn't arrive at the same place. We must have been in different vehicles. I didn't get there. I got to the whole. Santa came and saved the day. He made it snow on Halloween.
Ashley:What is this? This just feels like the Wizard of Oz to me.
Jonathan:She wasn't the way she was.
Ashley:She wanted to think different. She wanted adventure and bright colors and song. And then there's that realization of course that everything you ever wanted. You've already had. Fat white guy at the end saves the day, yeah.
Jonathan:I didn't know the Wizard of Oz. How I didn't see the Wizard of Oz.
Ashley:I thought the female was the Well, yeah, so I mean like the Good Witch of the North oh, it was in you the whole time. She came down was a female. Well, yeah, so I mean like the good witch of the north oh, it was in you the whole time.
Jonathan:She came down in a bubble Kalinda, it's a bubble, bro. Her sister was a witch.
Mari:Are you a good witch or are you a bad witch?
Ashley:I just yeah, I mean again. I think it's good theme Theming Halloween Town's impressive. Yeah, I just yeah, I mean again. I think it's good theme theming Halloween Town's impressive.
Mari:Yeah.
Ashley:I think I was more disappointed when I heard them say Kentucky today.
Mari:I was like what are you bro? What are you talking about? It was a to a man in Kentucky. I'm Mr Unlucky Right.
Ashley:What do you know about Kentucky? I just couldn't let it go.
Mari:That's funny.
Ashley:Like where is Halloweenoweentown based? You need to know Logistically.
Jonathan:Well, it's got to be in the US. If there's Thanksgiving, or Canada, it's in the western, okay, but where they speak English.
Ashley:Do you think it's like the Midwest? Because it's like Germany.
Jonathan:It's very interesting, I don't know. Maybe we should do that. You should Thank you for volunteering.
Ashley:No, don't give me.
Mari:Ashley said no, but when he was like I've also seen London and France.
Ashley:I've seen Paris and France. Have you, though, like how'd you get there?
Mari:Your automobile vehicles don't seem legit, you know what I just realized as like maybe a little headcanon Is maybe you see Halloween Town and you see each of these holiday towns through your own vision of what Halloween is for you. Like if Halloween for you, you celebrate it a certain way, that's what you're going to see when you go to halloween town. Like if, if you live in australia and christmas is like going to the beach and having a barbecue when you go to christmastown, that's what you're going to see. You know what I mean. Like we're saying north pole and that's our culture. That's my brain cannon.
Ashley:So it's the trees of all the holidays in the same place of each of the other lands, so like if Halloween Town's in like Kansas is Christmas Town in Kansas and the forest is just all like a multi-universe tree situation.
Mari:It's a timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly, cross-universe quantum situation.
Jonathan:Is this really the first reference of the multiverse?
Mari:situation. Is this really the first reference of the multiverse? Um, it depends on how you define multiverse. I mean like, is lord of the rings a reference, or a multiverse where you have like the, the area where they and and I'm sorry, I'm not a lord of the rings super nerd, so I don't know all this. So I hear people screaming at me telling me the right terminology, fine, please at me. Um, at the end of lord of the rings were like the, the races were dying or had chosen to die, and they were like the elves and whatnot were going off into the, whatever. I feel like that was like another land, another universe, and then the it was the time for the age of the, of man in in this world. I mean, maybe that's a reference to like a universe, multi-universe which predates yeah, yeah, yeah it does
Mari:by a lot 1938, yeah I mean I guess around the same time, because what tolkien and cs lewis used to hang out together at the pub? So you have, narnia was written around the same time. Narnia is arguably, oh, narnia.
Ashley:You know multidimensional Well, so it's a book.
Jonathan:I see the movie Narnia, isn't that Chronicles of Narnia.
Mari:Chronicles of Narnia is a good reading for this time of year. Actually it's a good winter story. There's probably some amazing audiobook versions of it as long as that book's been around. But like it's a good, it's a good winner tale to read. I think you could do that there's your homework, jonathan what to watch read it will watch that by yourself watch it on TV
Jonathan:read it with your ear holes my, my heart here is watch it on TV.
Ashley:I'll Google it on TV, watch it alone.
Jonathan:I'll Google it on Netflix.
Ashley:Is it sad?
Jonathan:The boa dies Fast forward through it.
Ashley:It's pretty poignant.
Jonathan:Oh.
Mari:Boo Amy, anything or any of us, anything else we want to talk to Amy about. Anything else you want to bring up about your business.
Ashley:No, amy, where can we?
Amy:find you. You can find me on Etsy. Yeah, Maplegrass Design on Etsy.
Ashley:I'm also on Instagram and Facebook Important platform, yeah.
Amy:How's Etssy treating you? Uh, fees are a little high, but I'm able to find people that, uh, maybe I I couldn't find before have you explored any of the other um marketplaces?
Amy:I checked out um. There's shopify that a friend of mine uses, um, but they charge by the month and I don't feel like I've grown quite to that level. So right now the Etsy fees are less than what a monthly subscription with Shopify would be. The tough thing with Etsy is making sure that you have everything tagged appropriately, because there are, I mean, hundreds of thousands of things that may come up. So even if I search for myself, even very specifically, the type of surprise ball that I'm making, I may not even show up in some of the searches. So that part of it has been kind of tough. So the in-person markets have been a lot better than the online.
Jonathan:Oh, nice, Nice. How many in-person markets have you been? I'm assuming locally it's a hustle too. How are you finding those?
Amy:friends who do vending. The first one that I did was a witch's night out. Everything was very warmly received. I had to do a lot of explaining because everyone's like what is this? Or is this a bath bomb? That was probably the most common thing Is this a bath bomb? So I'm in the process of making like a poster that kind of explains a little bit more what this is. But once that comes across, everybody really liked it. I did very well at the Witch's Night Out, which is very encouraging.
Jonathan:Very nice, very nice. Yeah, I'd be keen to follow along and see how this develops for you.
Ashley:Yeah, do so, thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight.
Amy:I appreciate you guys having me.
Mari:I told her we'd be nice. She was nervous. It's fine, it's fine.
Ashley:We're fairly harmless over here. Most of the time. Well, I said fairly.
Mari:Alright, so I'm going to wrap it up. Thanks to listening to Of Sw, of sorts and soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check the show notes, rate and review, and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us. Follow us on instagram at of sorts and soulmates, or join our facebook page of sorts and soulmates. Check out our website of sorts and soulmatescom and we're also available on youtube tick tock, tick tock and Pinterest with all the same username. Check out. I have lost my place. I am so sorry.
Ashley:It's the first time it's happened.
Mari:It is. If you'd like to offer a suggestion for a future rapid fire question, reach out to us on any of those options or email us. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode, you can follow us on any of those options or email us. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode, you can follow us on Goodreads at Of Swords and Soulmates. Or if you want to go like chapter by chapter discussions and breakdown, you can follow us on the Fable app. We have a book club on the Fable app. It's also called the Swords and Soulmates Book Club. Right now on there we're reading Phantasma. We hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode when we read and talk about Jingle All the Slay by Dakota Cassidy. Bye-bye, yeah, thanks for watching.
