Of Swords and Soulmates

"The Games Gods Play" - Hades Changes the Game

• Mari • Season 1 • Episode 19

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With excitement in the air, we’re joined by Summer and Becky from Summer Reading Creations as we look at the discovery of an unknown Bram Stoker short story, "Gibbet Hill". Alongside this thrilling discovery, we can't ignore the buzz around Illumicrate's special edition of "House of Flame and Shadow" and the enchanting advent calendars sparking holiday joy. This takes us into a tangent as we talk about ACoTaR, Crescent City, andThrone of Glass.

Our journey through the mythical and modern tales continues with a hearty discussion on Abigail Owen's latest book, weaving Greek mythology into a contemporary narrative. The nuances of character relationships, especially involving the mysterious Hades, lead to engaging debates about loyalty and destiny. We draw comparisons to popular works like Neon Gods and Lore Olympus, shedding light on the fresh twists Owen brings to her storytelling. Ratings and reviews reveal a spectrum of opinions, with some praising the book's imaginative retelling while others eagerly anticipate the sequel for more answers.

Adding a whimsical touch to our literary adventure, Summer and Becky introduce their charming take on the "blind date with a book" concept. This delightful surprise reading experience adds a dash of mystery and joy to any book lover's collection. As we wrap up, we invite you to connect with our vibrant podcast community across social media, dive into our book club on the Fable app, and join us on a literary journey full of surprises, discussions, and the magic that only books can bring.

Links from the News Segment and Show

  • New Bram Stoker short story found after 134 yrs – “Gibbet Hill”
  • Illumicrate special edition of House of Flame and Shadow by Sarah J. Maas
    • Website link
    • £40 + shipping, will ship in Feb/Mar 2025 
    • Presale November 19 for subscribers, general sale November 21
  • Assistant to the Villain series book 3 has a name and release date 
  • Barbarian's Treat by Ruby Dixon
    • Amazon Link
    • 84-page Halloween novella set in the world of IPB
  • Dance of the Dragons event in Orlando
  • Summer Reading Creations

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Ashley:

Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants. The hosts make no claim to be literary experts and their opinions are exactly that opinions, All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and is being used under the fair use doctrine.

Mari:

Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch and discuss romanicy stories. I'm one of your hosts, mari, and with me I have Kelly.

Kelly:

Hey everyone, it's Kelly. Of course we have Ashley.

Ashley:

Hi everyone. It's Ashley. We also have Jonathan. What's good, it's JP we also have Jonathan.

Jonathan:

What's good, JP. Oh, I'm living the dream.

Mari:

But today JP is not doing the caboose.

Jonathan:

We have two Not the caboose, not at the back of the bus today, folks. Nope, they've given me a promotion.

Mari:

Yes, you're now in the middle. We have two guests with us. We have Summer and Becky. Hello, all right, so I'm going to talk a little bit about everybody first, because obviously it's Summer and Becky's first time here and you guys might be wondering why we have two strangers on the podcast.

Mari:

So Summer and Becky have a business called Summer Reading Club, summer Reading Creations Summer Reading Creations so sorry, summer Reading Creations and I ran into them at a non-book event thing at a fall festival. I was with some other friends. We went to coffees, we went and got coffees, we did thrift shopping, and then we're like, oh, there's a fall festival, let's go there too. And then I saw books and everything was lost. So Summer and Becky are going to tell us a little bit more about their business and what all they do on the Rapid Buyer segment. We're going to talk a little bit more about that, but for now they're going to hang out with us and talk through some of the new stuff and some of the book review stuff, and we'll go from there. So the book that we're going to be discussing today is the Games Gods Play by Abigail Owen. But first, as always, some news. So something I did not have on my bingo card for 2024 is that Bram Stoker would drop a new short story. Don't know about you guys. How's he doing?

Jonathan:

How's he doing? He's still dead.

Mari:

He's real dead. So, if you don't know, bram Stoker wrote Dracula like I don't know 1890s or something Long time ago. So apparently there was a guy named brian cleary he's an amateur historian and a brom stoker fan who basically had some hearing loss and had to like take some time off, work and everything and decided he was gonna hang out in the stoker like I don't know museum or wherever they keep like his works and everything. And he found this short story that he'd never heard of before, that he'd never heard anybody reference before. It's called Gibbet Hill, it was written in 1890. And he like checked it out with the official historian for Bram Stoker, like the person who wrote the biography or whatever. And all this happened October of last year and so it all got verified. And so then the big Bram Stoker Festival they do. They released it this year, so like the new Bram Stoker short story dropped in 2024.

Ashley:

What a time to be alive.

Jonathan:

He's dead. We just covered that. He's not even alive.

Ashley:

Look at us.

Mari:

How very undead Dracula vampire is that Like even from beyond the grave. He's dropping new stories. That's full circle.

Jonathan:

He is the undead Dracula, vampires that like even from beyond the grave he's dropping new stories.

Mari:

That's full circle.

Jonathan:

He is the undead Full circle. What it's like, tupac.

Mari:

Bram Stoker's undead, undead.

Summer:

But imagine being an amateur historian and finding that that's career breaking.

Mari:

Yeah, and like. That's a person who you like, like and admire and everything, and now you will forever be a part of his history because you're the person that found that short story yeah.

Jonathan:

It was really cool story. Yeah, it's like going to yard sales and and with your sole purpose of getting like a really terrible painting, but hopefully the declaration of independence is in the back, those people who find Da Vinci's right in the back of other paintings or whatever that's me right in the back of other paintings or whatever. That's me.

Mari:

That's why I keep buying all these crazy dogs playing poker stuff. You never know. You never know what was painted over.

Mari:

Making fun of warhol yeah the other thing I saw that was like the big big thing, um. But there's some other stuff I saw, um illumicrate, which is another like um. You know one of those services that, like you can subscribe to and you get a book a month and or you they do like special edition. So lumicrate is doing a special edition of house of flame and shadow, which is book three of the crescent city series by sarah j mass. It is. It's a popular series. I can't say much. I I took me nine months to read the first book and I'm on the second book now and we're like on month two. So they're they're chunky and they're very different.

Jonathan:

But the rest of her works are they entertaining or are they just thick, thick with like two c's?

Mari:

I. I feel like there are a lot like the sarah j mass mo, which is basically they kind of drag a little in the middle and then at the end like all the shocking stuff happens at the end. And that's fine for like a 300 page book, but when you get into like these 700 page like tomes- remember when you read akatar and we were like you could skip a whole bunch of stuff.

Jonathan:

You need to be a good you got to be a good word skipper together. Maybe that's the key. Maybe it's like read the first 100 pages, people elective then, then, like you know, spot read for the next I don't know 400. And then dig in for the long haul.

Ashley:

Yeah, it's. It's not always easy to do the first go around, though.

Jonathan:

Right.

Ashley:

Sometimes those chunky books, those world builders right.

Jonathan:

Do we own this book?

Ashley:

No, I don't have it, crescent City, but I haven't gotten a second or a third.

Jonathan:

I mean. So this? I'm not going to lie, this speaks to me. Here's why it speaks to me. It's a bargain. Your words per dollar count. It goes up.

Ashley:

No, now we just buy things because they're pretty. It's adult money.

Mari:

Yeah, we're good at making those mistakes, like the regular versions of these books are pretty like. Their covers are really pretty. So basically the settings are it's more of like a modern setting. It's like a modern feel modern world, like there's cell phones, there's clubs, there's you know that kind of a vibe, um, but really yeah, but there's also like paranormal things, so it feels like a paranormal story.

Mari:

So yeah, there's like temporary stuff there's witches, there's werewolves there, vampires, there's angels, there's demons, there's like archangels there and sprites and enchanted fairy things. Yeah, so it's. It's a lot to absorb all at once. Because you like, I've I've read that guitar series and I've read throne of glass, and so I'm trying to figure out how this figures in to everything, because that's the that's. I wanted to read it, because it's sarah j maas and I want to read everything she's written, to be a completionist, to have an opinion about it, and I like that guitar and I like throwing a glass, but I also like kept hearing that, oh, they're interconnected. You know the stories are interconnected eventually or something. Have have you guys read them?

Summer:

So I haven't, just because I've been so intimidated by Sarah J Maas. But you kind of suddenly get to be honest. Yes, because isn't there like eight Stick around?

Ashley:

long enough. That's called a sucker pack. It is. My husband is king of them Sucker packs. We'll talk you into it if you need an excuse.

Jonathan:

Get just the first one. The first one, just a little taste. Do we have the first?

Mari:

one on audible and then you're, then you're hooked. Yeah, it'd be a long listen for sure.

Summer:

The first one is on audible oh, oh, okay.

Mari:

So, yes, so you know, there's the three series akatar, crescent city and throne of glass. So I read akatar first. Have you guys read any any? Sarah jimmy, okay, I read akatar first. We just read akatarOTAR as a pod. I really like the ACOTAR series. However, this is saying as someone who likes the ACOTAR series. The first book in the ACOTAR series is the weakest of the bunch. So please don't judge the whole series by it. At least read the second one before you decide. But I really like the series. I think she does a really good job of misdirecting you and pulling you in and making you. I really can't say a lot because Ash and I have read beyond the first one, but Kelly and Jonathan have not.

Kelly:

Do not let them peer pressure you into reading these books.

Ashley:

Absolutely peer pressure you if you stick around long enough.

Mari:

Sorry in advance the other thing, too, is the throne of glass, series which, ash, you haven't read any of, right, I have not no, so I'm scared.

Summer:

That's like the less chunky series so far.

Mari:

Right no um, the books are less chunky, but there are more books. Oh, that's true's true, but the Throne of Glass is a complete series. She started writing Throne of Glass when she was like 16 years old, it is to me.

Jonathan:

You can tell, because it takes about that long to read it.

Mari:

No, it does not you haven't read them.

Kelly:

How long have you been reading it, Mari?

Mari:

Which one?

Kelly:

That one.

Mari:

The Throne of Glass. I read all of Throne of Glass in one month.

Kelly:

Really.

Mari:

Yeah.

Kelly:

That's a record.

Jonathan:

It's lightning fast, that's a record.

Mari:

Aren't there like five of them? There's like seven of them. I read it in one month. I was like I'm going to read Throne of Glass this month, not realizing how many books not Akatar, I'm sorry Throne of Glass this month, not realizing how many books there were and that there's some weird five and six that you have to like, skip chapters back and forth and everything else. I really enjoyed Throne of Glass. Crescent City is the one that's been taking me forever. It's like Crescent City took nine months for the first book. That tells you a difference. Like I've read I don't know 180, 190 books this year, so I'm not a slow reader and it still took me that long.

Kelly:

That was a nice humble brag.

Summer:

Just drop that in there, real quick it was.

Kelly:

Oh, I've only read 180 something books this year so far, but I'll get to 200 easily, don't worry yeah.

Jonathan:

I've read the titles of at least 200 books.

Mari:

What I'm saying is that it took me nine months, not because I'm a slow reader. It just had a hard time getting into the characters and getting into the world. With Crescent City, however, throne of Glass Okay. So to me, agatar is like stereotypical romancy series. It is like bread and butter romancy. If you want a romancy series, that's it. It has all the things, all the hits you think of for a romancy series.

Mari:

Stereotypical Throne of Glass is often said to be a romancy series because it's written by Sarah J Maas, but in my opinion, I think it's way more fantasy, like it's got some romance in there, but I think it's way more of a fantasy book, fantasy series. I think it's just because she was known for Akatar. They're like oh, this is romantic too, and I think that if, like I don't know, george R R Martin or Patrick Rothbos or brandon sanderson had written throne of glass, it would be a fantasy book. But the thing with the throne of glass is like it's like you're reading the first.

Mari:

I think three books are much more small world, like it's very much what's in her immediate area? It's there's not a lot in the rest of the world, but then by the end of the series you've got throne of glass style multiple countries, countries, multiple armies, multiple battles and multiple things happening all at the same time and it pulls together into like a big you know thing. That happens in the last book. I hear a lot of people describe it as like it's one series, but it's almost like two series in one Because the first few are very much like a coming of age kind of thing and then the rest it's like more of a fantasy world that you think of. As far as like fantasy stories, if she started yeah she's really selling it.

Ashley:

I know it's a commitment, though, guys that's what I'm intimidated, you just gotta

Becky:

commit so much. How long did it take us to start fourth wing? After you bought them? Books a minute. We only read them as quick as we did, because I was in a terrible reading slump and didn't read for a week and a half and then we just kind of like within days, though it was done.

Summer:

Yeah, yeah, those are fast, but it took us like mentally so long to get into it also because we have to wait until january.

Mari:

I know I'm struggling, I'm struggling um, okay, so a lumicrate doing the house of flame and shadows, book three of crescent city.

Mari:

It is 40 pounds that's what it said on the website because even though the price of the weight the price, even though I put us and it said us at the top it was giving me the price in pounds. So, whatever, 40 pounds is in dollars plus shipping. It will be shipping in february or march of 2025 and the sales begin um the 21st of november for all of us who don't have lumicrate subscriptions and the 19th of november for people who have a lumicate. Lumicrate subscriptions and or who bought the first two books from them. They're giving those people priority, which is cool. I guess.

Mari:

If you want the set to all match, I'm fine with the regular, just FYI for people out there. The other, also SJM-ish news is that there is a Valeris Advent calendar out there that I didn't know existed and it is done by this company that does like officially licensed Sarah J Mass and a few other authors like jewelry, so like really pretty, and so the calendar has got jewelry in it. By the time, between the time that I found this news and me, I was talking about it today, it's now sold out. It was $198 and it sold out.

Ashley:

But it was also UK based, wasn't?

Jonathan:

it, it looks, it looks very.

Mari:

Italian, so definitely European-based.

Jonathan:

A little wintry village.

Mari:

Yeah, a little village. It looks really cute, and then there's jewelry. Inside there is a mailing list. I don't know if they're going to do more or if that just gets you on the list for next year. So I think you probably get your money's worth. Looking at the price of the stuff that they sell and some of their stuff is really oh yeah, no, this looks.

Jonathan:

This looks really cute. A good second place to this, if you're looking for like an alternative, would be that gilmore girls calendar, badman calendar that I see on the tiktoks I haven't seen that one.

Mari:

I'm a big. More girls fan.

Summer:

I know that. Know, this is really cute though. Yeah, even if I weren't a sjm fan, I honestly would consider purchasing it I think they've got a few.

Mari:

I think is it caraval. I think they've got some jewelry they have a few other series that I've not read, but I know like they have throne of glass and akatar and, I think, some crescent stuff.

Jonathan:

What it is is you read one chapter a month and then you're able to open up one of these boxes, and that's how you effectively get through one of her books.

Mari:

I mean maybe, but you still wouldn't be done through the book. 12 chapters is not going to get you.

Jonathan:

You've got to go next year too.

Mari:

That's what.

Jonathan:

I'm saying Every year All right.

Mari:

The other thing I had we've talked about some is that the third Assistant to the Villain book title has been released and the date so it's going to be coming out September 25th of 2025, and it's going to be called Accomplice to the Villain.

Jonathan:

Clever, clever. Yes, so you can see the progression.

Mari:

Yeah, very exciting Summer and Becky, have you guys read any of her books? I was looking.

Becky:

I don't know. I think so. They're both in my KU library right now. I want to read them so bad.

Mari:

They're fun reads. They're like they are. It feels like a rom-com, like a magical rom-com.

Jonathan:

Yeah, it's like Groot meets Fourth Wing, like you know, like the Minions meets Fourth Wing.

Mari:

Also Ruby Dixon, who we've talked about before. She did the Ice Planet Barbarians series. She released these like free over the past few days, has been releasing every day a little short story snippet in the Ice Planet Barbarians world and it's like Halloween stories and it's now released as a KU like Kindle Unlimited or you can buy the book Novell. It's called Barians treat and it's like all the all the ice planet barbarians and the kids and the whole tribe or whatever, doing like halloween on the not hoth planet. I think it looks cute. It looks very cute. Um, have you guys, uh, summer becky. Have you guys read any of the ice planet barbarian books?

Mari:

no, I actually don't even think I've heard of ruby dixon so she I think Planet Barbarians is like the main thing she's known for. She's written like a billion books. They are, they're high spice, so which I like the Ice. Planet Barbarians books are very much like easy palette, cleanser, repetitive, but they also tell like this overarching story of the whole tribe. So you still get like, if you get each story, it's very like very much a romance book. You know there's gonna be happily ever after. You know there's gonna be something in the middle and then they'll get together or whatever, and but all the while you're also like finding out what happens with some of the other characters from the books, because they're in a tribe, like they all basically still interact with each other. Um, it's sci-fi, but it's like sci-fi only in that only in the way star wars is sci-fi, like because they're aliens. Um, the ice planet barbarians are aliens. But yeah, it's a very, very light fun.

Summer:

It's a good winter read because it's on an ice planet I should think I have seen some of her works on Kindle, now that I'm looking through them.

Mari:

They're all on Kindle limited. Yeah, is there anything else? News wise.

Jonathan:

We have just a little bit. It's a feel good story. There is an author out of Utah who decided like, decided, as a way to pay off her family's medical debt, she would write a book. Way to pay off her family's medical debt, she would write a book Easy, easy peasy, lemon squeezy, right. So 39 days is what it took her to get this book kind of churned out. And she used her local community to kind of help get things rolling. But it's paid off. I believe there was some sort of like preemptive order that ends up like essentially it ends up like helping her out financially in the long run, which was pretty to me. I think that's just pretty remarkable If anybody's sitting around thinking, hey, what can I?

Jonathan:

You know, I want to write a book, but I'm just a little. I'm not sure I can do it. I'm here to tell you you can. 40 days, less than 40 days, and I fully expect you all to write books for me in the next month and a half. It's interesting. I was reading a little bit about her background. It doesn't necessarily align with Roman fantasy, but the book seems to be, and I don't quite have a feel for it. What's her name? Oh, her, don't quite have a feel for it.

Mari:

If it's what's her name?

Jonathan:

Oh, her name is Sarah Wilson, soraya Wilson, so Sarah Sierra, uh S A R I A H.

Ashley:

Oh Soraya.

Jonathan:

Soraya, soraya, yeah. Yeah, if I'm mispronouncing your name, you can call me and correct me. Uh, my name is kelly. I point all your all your emails to him.

Jonathan:

The book is a tribute of fire and it's basically, it's basically about a princess in a diet in a dying desert nation that's been cursed, uh, by an earth goddess and they there's this like event, uh some sort of race, where you have you're forced to compete in a life and death event to reach this goddess's temple, and over the course of a millennium, no maiden has made it out alive.

Mari:

But this year the Leah, the princess, is one of the hunted, so it's it looks like Jennifer Armantrout is like one of the people who has given it accolades, so that's a pretty big name. Anything else, news wise, all right. So moving on to the book the Games Gods Play by Abigail Owen, I believe this is a Jonathan pick, right? Didn't you choose this, jonathan?

Jonathan:

Yeah, I think partly because I fell in love with Abigail at that event and it was a pretty book. It's a very pretty book, although the dust jacket is prettier than the actual cover, but it's better. The cover on this one is better than a lot of other covers, so very, very stoked.

Ashley:

We were influenced.

Jonathan:

Very heavily influenced.

Mari:

Yeah, abigail Owen was at the Fabled Fantasy event. Super nice, really fun to talk to, and that was one of the. The things I think we liked so much about that event is you could just walk up and talk to people, to these authors, and they can pitch their books and we can give them all our money.

Jonathan:

She was sparkly, there she was very sparkly, um, okay, so uh.

Mari:

This book was published this year, september 17th 2024. It is brand new, brand spanking new. I'm going to read the synopsis, even I'm going to read the synopsis, and then we can get into it. The gods love to play games with us, mere mortals, and every hundred years we let them.

Mari:

I have never been favored by the gods, far from it, thanks to Zeus, living as a cursed office clerk for the order of thieves. I just keep my head down and hope the capricious beings who rule from olympus won't notice me. Not an easy to sit on the throne of Olympus, but instead of fighting their own battles, the gods name mortals to compete in their stead. So why in the underworld did Hades choose me, a sarcastic nobody with a curse on her shoulders, as his champion? And why does my heart trip every time he says I'm his I don't know if I'm a pawn bait or something else entirely to this dangerously tempting god. How can I, I, when he has more secrets than stars in the sky? Because hades is playing by his own rules and death will win at any cost oh, I just got the chicken skin right.

Mari:

So what we think? Overall overall rating. Overall vibes non-spoilery. Who wants to go first?

Jonathan:

I nominate Becky I haven't read it.

Mari:

Becky, what do you think of the description?

Becky:

Wonderful. I'm going to listen on the way home. Actually, Turn it on on the way home. I think I'll listen to it.

Mari:

Summer. You got some of the way through. I got yeah.

Summer:

I got all the way up to I think it was like chapter 45, I so I'm in love with hades, all hades, all across.

Mari:

This is my first non-spoilers yeah, we'll get to spoilers in a sec.

Summer:

It was good what I've read. It was really good.

Mari:

I will say, if you like hades, if you haven't read neon gods by katie roberts, that series I would would recommend. It's spice, high spice, but it's good. But also if you do graphic novels, lore Olympus by Rachel Smythe is like a modern. It's what got me into Greek gods, because I didn't really get into them as like a kid or anything Like that graphic novel got me into stuff. And then Jonathan and Ash got me Neon Gods. It's been downhill on gods. It's been downhill and so I guess I'll go next.

Mari:

I non-spoilery this is greek gods. This is a modern kind of retelling of greek god, so it's not set in like ancient greece or anything. I thought the main character, chickie, was very sassy and I liked her from the get-go. Her brand of like sassiness just hit for me. I feel like it was kind of a neon god zora olympus meets hunger games. People were saying like a lot of people have been comparing it to the percy percy jackson series, but I didn't read that so I don't. I can't compare it to that. I really, really enjoyed this book and I gave it a five stars high praise.

Ashley:

Praise come from you, we don't give out five stars likely.

Jonathan:

Uh, lightly girls, just so that you're aware if you've ever seen the great british baking show, those, those five stars, are like a handshake yeah, yes, a handshake from old blue eyes.

Ashley:

Absolutely no soggy bottoms here he's doing shoulder pads now. It's a whole new game out there. Guys, I'll go next. I think it was a solid four, if not a five. I maybe had a couple of complaints, like I thought, you know, some things were sped up Like that we lost some context in that part. But I appreciated the world building. I can see the Percy Jackson vibes, just because I think Percy Jackson, in a non-adult way kind of brought a lot of those Greek mythology stories to the modern world, right? So Neon Gods is not for everyone, right, but Percy Jackson can be for everyone. So I can see whichever commenter made that I can see where they're coming from, having read and watched all the Percy Jackson stuff. I think the only reason I didn't give it a five is because we are now going through withdrawals, so we're not going to be able to read book two, probably for some time, and I'm assuming this is a series I believe she's called it.

Ashley:

Yeah, book too, probably for some time, and I'm assuming this is a series I believe she's called it yeah and so that's it has more to do with me than it does with the story. I I enjoyed this a lot. I devoured it pretty quickly over the course of a few days and you're, you're, you're, you're words.

Jonathan:

There were some late nights.

Ashley:

I'm not a word person how fast you said your audiobooks to jonathan what's yeah?

Becky:

uh yeah you wanna wait. No, no, it's not his turn. Yeah, no no get your turn.

Jonathan:

I'm gonna sit back here for a little bit.

Ashley:

Go ahead you just do that, and so, um, it was a four and a half for me because I I felt there were some parts of the story that were expedited. I can see the necessity of it. It doesn't mean that I liked that part, but I will probably reread it, especially when it comes time for more stories, and so at that point I will probably bump it up to a five, when I have more to read and more perspective.

Jonathan:

Is it on me? Is that what we're hanging out for?

Ashley:

Yeah, that's been the pattern we've been doing my bad, my bad, my bad, we'll dive right in here.

Jonathan:

I found this to be a delightful treat. Delightful treat, a delightful treat. It was fun. It kept me entertained. I like short chapters. This was definitely like it ticked all those boxes, ashley's right, the pace of the book. It left me wanting a little more in it, but at the end of the day I was excited.

Ashley:

I felt all the way through Excited to read.

Jonathan:

I felt, yeah, I felt excited to read. Welcome to the cult, sir. And so, mari, yes, I do read at, I do read with my ear holes. But, but for this, for this book, since we own so many copies of it already. We got his hers and then another one.

Ashley:

And then the author's signature.

Jonathan:

Yeah. So for this one I did immersive reading. So basically, becky and Summer, what I did was I locked myself into the sauna, myself into the sauna, and no um I, I just I did a read along uh with it, and I thought it was um it it.

Jonathan:

It forced me to pay a little bit more closer attention to it, so it slowed him down. Hey, I don't know if it slowed me. I mean maybe, maybe a tick, maybe it slowed me down a tick, maybe 10 slower on thursday he was like I don't know if I'm gonna finish this.

Ashley:

We might need to delay and I was like what are you about? You've been reading this every night before bed. I thought and I think it was only because we had a long road trip this weekend that you knocked it out.

Jonathan:

You were just reading it slower than you normally would I like to do annotations when I do immersive reading and I couldn't do annotations in the car.

Ashley:

So what's your score?

Jonathan:

I'm giving it five. I don't think I've given. Have I given it? I don't know, this one right now. This one tops tops my list of twenty twenty four reads.

Summer:

OK, Honestly, it climbed pretty close to me too.

Mari:

Yeah.

Summer:

Just from what I've already and again. I didn't read, I listened, but yeah, kelly.

Kelly:

So if I had a nickel for every hades and persephone retelling we've read so far, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's strange that we've had two in 18 books or 17 books in one movie have we read more hades and persephone retellings or have we read more beauty and the beast retellings?

Jonathan:

I wonder wonder Beauty and the Beast, I think. How many Hades and Persephone retellings did we read? Just one Besides this.

Mari:

No, yes.

Jonathan:

Avian Bone it's just.

Kelly:

Katnick.

Mari:

Is there? Yeah, you're right. You're right, avian Bone in this one. Okay, you're right. You're right. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Summer:

So I don, or Beauty and the Beast, it seems like.

Mari:

that's all. There is Two love stories of the times For the ages. What did you think, Kel?

Kelly:

I thought the book was an interesting take on the Greek and Roman gods interfering in mortal lives or continuing to interfere in mortal lives. It was a strange way of having juxtaposition with modern times in there and the gods being all-powerful even though we had sufficiently advanced technology. And I thought it was interesting that they hinted that there were other pantheons of gods that were involved other than the Greek and Roman gods. They sort of hinted that there were Asian gods that were also hanging around and interfering and stuff.

Kelly:

Like the Norse gods were mentioned there were Asian gods that were also hanging around and interfering and stuff Like the Norse gods were mentioned, and the Norse gods were mentioned. What I find interesting that I would have loved to see explore in this world is what happened to Christianity, Because Christianity was probably the big driving force that eliminated the Greek and Roman gods worship, eliminated Norse mythology and stuff like that. So it would have been interesting had the author explored what happened to Christianity and what the role of Christianity was.

Mari:

I wonder if Abigail Owen is going to be at Fayetteville family next year. Maybe that can be the question. She's going to be back?

Jonathan:

That's a dangerous question. It's a dangerous question. I mean. The gods are immortal, right, Jesus clearly bit the dust. That's probably what happened. He was like one. Jesus was a one and done-er. That's all I'm saying.

Kelly:

He checked out. I don't know. I thought it was a good book, but it wasn't something that was, oh my God, good it wasn't't. It's definitely not my favorite book that we've read as a podcast, so I gave it a three and a half. I really wanted to give it a four but, like has already been said, I felt there were parts that were extremely rushed, like. I almost feel like in some parts of it, maybe the author was trying to hurry things along.

Mari:

I wonder, wonder too, if I may have said Jet for Failure, because I finished it before. Kelly did A lot of twists and turns at the end. I was gasping, I was like it was very telenovela for me, I was like what? And so I think I may have built up some of that for Kelly, but I couldn't help it. It was twisty, turny for me, all right. So spoiler parts Spoiler.

Kelly:

So, from this point forward, we will be discussing spoilers. If you do not wish to be spoiled about this book, then you should skip to the end.

Mari:

All right, spoilery things, any spoilery overall things anybody wants to talk about.

Kelly:

Okay.

Kelly:

So I felt like when we got to the point where she was unconscious for two weeks and missed three of the events, it felt like that was the author moving the story along, almost like the author realized, holy crap, I am spending way too much time going into these events.

Kelly:

Or the author saying I really can't come up with something good for these other three events, so we're just going to do a whole skip them and talk about them. You know, have Hades tell her later what happened in those events. So it felt very rushed and you knew that in the final event that something was going to change in the rules because it had to still be there some tension for the possibility of her to win. So of course Zeus was going to make his event worth three times as many points or something similar was going to happen. Because if you don't have that coming in the story, you have no reason and no reason to root for the character to win because there's no way she can win the event. So what tension is there if there's no way she can win the event?

Kelly:

And because Zeus is an asshole, zeus is always an asshole, which is a convenient excuse for him to award three points to it, but it still felt very much like a. This was an expected plot twist.

Mari:

This wasn't a surprise see, for me, what I thought was going to happen was that she was going to because she was so depressed and everything. At that point I thought she was going to like give up or get hurt and and either die or they think she's died or something. I thought that's when hades was going to go all like I'll burn the world, like, like what the vision was. That's what I was expecting to have happened. Then she was going to have to push through it to like make himself. That's where I thought the tension was going to come.

Kelly:

And we have, yet again, the fulfillment of the female main character, being turned into a Faye, or turned into a goddess, or turned into a princess, or turned into whatever like every fairy tale.

Mari:

It is there's. No, there was no banging. There was a banging. No, there was no banging, she banged she.

Jonathan:

They banged, she became a goddess. That, no, that's not how that worked. She died and then he gave her his crown. To her that the banging is fucking the magic on there was. No, he didn't. He did not use his dick to flip that switch. Becky summer, I apologize. Have you, um? Have you listened to our show in the past?

Summer:

a few episodes, all right, cool, cool they knew what they were getting into.

Jonathan:

Yeah, yeah you guys gave her the, the good old jp warning.

Mari:

Yes, yes okay, cool, yeah, um, yeah the I gotta say and I don't know where to put this in other than the overall world building I fucking loved the dog Sebrus, like how they had it personified with the three personalities and like the just everything. Everything about Sebrus was enough to give it like an extra star in my book. I want.

Ashley:

We love a side character.

Mari:

Love, love, love, love, love love love, have you?

Jonathan:

have you um? Did you listen to the book at all, mari? Uh, no, no, I read it oh, if you get the chance to list, just to like, like, listen to, uh to to russ, because russ is like hey he's dopey he's like ed from, uh, you know, like the hyenas from the lion king. He's like ed yeah, he's just running around that's the voice I kind of pictured in my head.

Mari:

It was very derpy.

Jonathan:

Uh, anything else overall before we get into the world building no, I think my thoughts with with a line with kelly where it was like it was little, it felt a little rushed in that, like later. Third, at the beginning of the last excuse me, third of the book, it felt a little like hurried and it left me wanting, wanting more there's something about the pacing.

Mari:

I think that in some ways reminded me, and I know um I don't think you've read it, jonathan, I know kelly hasn't um, but I know ash, and I've read that the serpent and the wings of night. There's something about the pacing that kind of reminded me of some of the challenges and that. Did you get that, ash?

Ashley:

I mean, I didn't get that, I don't even know. Oh, I, I think jonathan labeled it well for me that it left me wanting. I don't think it ruined anything for me, but it did feel a little rushed and but like not for nothing. You know, again, we, we just um saw her at the panel and you know, she, she specifically, was telling us, you know like how rapidly these authors are putting out books, you know, to appease the masses, basically, and so I'm sure that there was life and deadlines in things that impacted that. I think you know whether or not we all felt it, that part was also necessary too, to see haiti's commitment to her and in her surviving for more reasons than one. So I, I didn't lose anything from, you know, not completing some of the trials. Um, yeah, it was a good tone.

Ashley:

I appreciated the tone of the book. There was a lot happening, but it wasn't super dense and hard to read. I did take it, like you know, kind of like what's her name? From assistant to the villain, like it was just, it was an easy, happy read and I was happy to read it and like stay up until 2 a couple of nights. So I, for those reasons, I really, I really enjoyed the book there. She has no notes for me.

Mari:

I was super stoked as far as world building, actually, you know what let me let summer and becky. If you want to weigh in, I know you haven't finished it, but if you want to weigh in on, like the world building fantasy, it's any of that stuff um, the fantasy element.

Summer:

I think it did really well from what I read so far. The only thing I really struggled with overall was I'm so loyal to Persephone that though I know she's gone, she's not around. It was still so hard because I really liked the female character and I liked her sass as we put it. So it was hard because in the back of my brain I was like you're not Persephone, so that was difficult to wrap my head around for a bit that was, but other than that, no complaints. So far it was a really like in-depth world building. I think in the beginning.

Mari:

At one point I thought that maybe the main character was going to be Persephone, because there was so sketchy on like building her backstory and there's so little that she remembered. I was like maybe this is an amnesia like story or something. Maybe they spelled her or like a reincarnation. Yeah, reincarnation, something like that. And then she was wiped like they.

Summer:

When she was picked, they couldn't find any information on her.

Mari:

Yeah, yeah and like it's a world where cell phones and internet and stuff exists, but because she's in this thieves guild thing, she doesn't have an online presence.

Summer:

I'm like and his immediate draw to her as well. I was like that's only reserved for Persephone.

Jonathan:

What's uh. So I think what uh? I and I started to head down that road about halfway through the book where it was like I thought to myself okay, this is how he's going to bring Persephone back. Is he's using her? She's unlovable, it's uh, so nobody's gonna miss her. So she will be the vessel in which persephone returns. Right, maybe he's just like I gotta bring her back. Okay, this is cool. I need a vessel to do funsies.

Jonathan:

Keep reading, because persephone's not dead yeah we don't, we don't get a return, but she's not, she's, she's, she's still a factor right. It's probably the best way to put it yeah, but this is a twist that diverts from the hades and persephone's retelling is that persephone is a is is like a sibling a platonic? Yeah, it's not it's not a lover's love, but it's not a romantic love correct yeah which I thought was really interesting yeah

Jonathan:

yeah, that's yeah, it's, it's interesting, so she's not. It's not like lira. Is the other woman right? She's, she's still like the only one. I didn't know how to feel about um hades. Like was he? Is he using her to get what he needs?

Ashley:

done. Oh, you were fully convinced he was using her.

Jonathan:

I'm still not unconvinced either yeah like. Like legit, still not.

Ashley:

Still like it's In the car it was really hard to shut up, guys, because he had feelings and I was just like you're in for it sir.

Jonathan:

Because, even like at the end right, it felt like a setup still, Even down to that very last page it felt like a real bucket.

Mari:

Yeah, because I'm just like why didn't he tell her everything? Then, If you're really together, if you're really in it, why are you still keeping secrets? Kelly, you were going to say something.

Kelly:

I found it interesting that Hades is doing this whole secret that Persephone is not his lover, it's more like a little sister to him. But apparently all the other gods think that Hades and Persephone were lovers and he hasn't bothered to correct any of them, including Persephone's mom yeah, and it kind of makes you wonder which like Greek myth is this going with?

Mari:

is this going with the whole? Like Persephone and and Hades were supposedly lovers myth is this going with? Is this going with the whole? Persephone and Hades were supposedly lovers, or is this going with the whole? Hades raped Persephone and drug her to the underworld version of the story. What is the story in that world?

Summer:

Well, it did have mention about her being trapped in the underworld, in this one versus all the others where she's choosing to stay, so it may be leaning towards the latter.

Mari:

Which it kind of goes into the whole like persona hades puts on as being this big, bad, bad guy, but once again, like to what end?

Summer:

that's always a hades mo is to be secretive and reclusive.

Ashley:

Yeah, no matter, I was just gonna say like it's no one else's business, like in my head, if, if persephone's pissed off at her mom, which is arguably a theme in a lot of retellings and or if Persephone was wronged in the God or human world, which again is a common theme that we've seen throughout the years, and if she ended up in the underworld under his protection, I mean, that's not Demeter's business, that's not Zeus's business, and their being in love or having a relationship would probably further protect her. Is my thought process, especially going down the mental thought process that is Rachel Smythe right like yeah what.

Ashley:

Persephone went through, so I could see him sucking it up to an extent, right, and say, well, well, fuck it if they think we're in a relationship that just makes you more less vulnerable, right, more protected. That's my, that was my thought process, like I don't doubt that he's holding secrets, and again, not for nothing. You're talking about millennia of hades just doing it himself, or at best, doing it with persephone. Just because you're in love, you don't drop all those secrets in a month yeah, it's true so where you put in the world building ash, what do you mean?

Jonathan:

what? What score are you giving it for world building?

Ashley:

or fantasy. Well, marie goes for something I'm sorry, marie.

Jonathan:

What do you wait back to marie?

Mari:

I gave it a four. I thought it did a pretty decent job between the whole modern greek world pretty well. I thought it did a really interesting job of interweaving things from our world. Like there was a quote from shakespeare, there was a little line about beauty and the beast's library. There was like it did um this is a new word for me, so I'm going to use it the intertextuality of bringing in?

Jonathan:

don't you use multi-syllabic words on your?

Mari:

brain. There's a scrabble word for you of bringing in, like other texts into into the one text, so it's pulling in um and referencing. So I thought I did a good job of that, which kind of gave you a more comfortable vibe. It felt like our world in a lot of ways, in enough ways that you know I made it easier to understand. The rest, yeah, I thought it was a four. I thought it was good. It was slightly better than I expected it to be. That's why I'm giving it a four.

Ashley:

Ash, i's not because I think anything was wrong or missing. I thought it was adequately blended for this modern retelling that includes technology but also ancient gods. There was a lot of visualization that I captured with how she described and explained things. I felt immersed and again, this wasn't a dense read. It was a thick read but it wasn't hard to process. Could there have been more man? Maybe, but it probably would have taken away from the rest of the story. We've read other Abigail Owens books that left us lacking, like lacking, you know, less impressed, and so I thought this was a major, major, um uh, progression, you know, in her storytelling abilities and I was thrilled with this world.

Jonathan:

so definitely a four for me uh, I'm gonna give it a five. I am a sucker for contemporary greek god stuff okay I liked it. I liked that he had a penthouse. I liked that. I liked that we were overworld, underworld, regulation world.

Ashley:

I liked it Also, cerberus.

Mari:

Cerberus yes, who's a good boy? Top five, who's a good boy? I like him too. Boys, yeah yeah.

Jonathan:

Boys, oh yeah definitely, oh yeah, definitely. Also, I like the relationship between Cameron and and and Hades and and Lyra and I like that. It was there like you know, like, yeah, I'm as old as Bud and so I'm going to get I get to call him Fi and that's my. That's what happens when, when Bud's or Bud's, I get to call him Fi, and so I like that kind of also the idea that he's the odd man out, right, other 12 gods are like oh fuck here he comes damn all right, nobody look him in the eye, maybe he'll go away.

Jonathan:

And then he's like, yeah, I'm playing, I'm playing this year, and the danger mode just like locks into place, so like the threat level is high yeah like I mean, I don't like nobody's worried about poseidon and the fish people come in like they're just like everyone's, like oh god, he's the one we have to worry about. He's a little dicey and spicy and I like it yes, so I I was super into that.

Jonathan:

I also uh, I liked, uh I liked the relationship that kind of would have with Aphrodite, how that would kind of come out and come to play. And I know we have a little bit of extra information on Aphrodite, courtesy of Abigail Owen.

Mari:

Oh yeah.

Jonathan:

Yeah, At one of the panels she said that when they were like who's your greatest, who's your scariest villain, Aphrodite. And she was like you're going to think it's Hades, but it's Aphrodite.

Mari:

Yeah, Well, because she told Zeus about Persephone. Did you get that? At the end that was one of my gasps, that was one of my telenovela gasps. At the end I was like no, she didn't. She told him, zeus knew because of her. Yeah, she's a player. She told him, zeus knew because of her.

Jonathan:

Yeah, she's a player. It's good. Yeah, it's good stuff, it's really good stuff, and so I would like to find out who his confidential informant is, and so we know, that we know one exists.

Jonathan:

Yeah, there's an Oracle of some sort that exists. Or maybe he traded a favor to the fates. I mean we all watch a Disney movie where he's buddy-buddy with them gals. Maybe he traded a favor to the fates. I mean we all watch that Disney movie where he's buddy-buddy with them gals, you know. So I like to picture him wearing like skinny jeans and like a black light, a lightweight black hoodie, but with like it's got, maybe it's got a little fringe around the maybe it's got thumb holes in it. You know what I mean. Maybe it's got like a gray.

Mari:

Slightly worn, slightly tattered.

Jonathan:

Yeah, but still like high end, like it's. He bought it like that. He bought it worn, like he didn't have to make it and and then he's got just really good. He's got like some high end sneakers shoes like they're shoes, but they're sneakers. You know what I mean. So I like that. They were like the other gods were like wow, he's got style, he's got class. That's how he became hades. And then, and then he's got uh, but then they were like let's give these people uniforms and they will give her like some prison issue, shit. And he was like not gonna happen, you're gonna be badass and baller, yeah because he knows.

Mari:

He knows the power of appearance, the power of that first impression, the power of the persona like that is, that's his thing. You know, kelly, what did you think?

Kelly:

so it's always interesting when an author tries to blend old gods into modern day, because you have the juxtaposition of high technology as well as the gods. So at what point, at what point would humanity no longer need the gods? That's always a good question in these types of scenarios. The whole idea of this thieves guild existing, but like existing, but apparently more or less that the thieves guild is known to the public because nobody questioned and there was no big like when they talked about lira being from the the thieves guild. There was no big outcry in the newspaper what thieves guild? What's all this about? Right? So apparently it's a known thing that there's a thieves guild.

Kelly:

I mean, okay, like that the author did, like I said earlier, bring in you know hint, that there were other god pantheons that were involved in the world, which I always thought is an interesting concept. Because if the greek gods, if zeus, has so much power, if the greek gods, whoever's the king of the gods has so much power, if the Greek gods, whoever's the king of the gods has so much power that they could destroy the world, essentially, then you would think that the other pantheon gods would be just as powerful to stop them. I mean. So if Hades goes on a bender and decides he's going to burn down the world, why aren't the Norse gods stopping him?

Mari:

Is it like a Cold War situation where they'll make it all burn down the world?

Kelly:

You know, I mean certainly Odin could come down and put a stop to Zeus. I mean it's like the classic question who would kick whose ass, odin or Zeus? You know so. And then that's not even getting into the.

Jonathan:

I mean clearly, it was Thor that was answered in Love and Fire.

Kelly:

Well then, that's not even getting into the numerous Asian deities who are just as powerful, you know, as the Greek gods or the Roman gods or the Norse gods are. So and then you get into, like, well, what about Native American gods? Why is it that only the Greek gods are the ones that can possibly destroy the world? You know, it seems to me like if Zeus's champion, or whatever, is going to do something horrible, or Zeus is going to do something horrible, he would easily have the other pantheons aligned against him, and exactly, it's like a Cold War situation.

Mari:

Maybe that's what the other books would be about. More about the other pantheons coming in. That would be amazing.

Jonathan:

That would be a cool twist, I think. For now, though, it just kind of sits around the Greek gods as far as being in control.

Mari:

I do want to add in real quick one more thing into the world building. That I thought was that Abigail Owen did really, really good job, that a dowry of blood that we just read did not do, and that the invisible life of Eddie LaRue, which is very popular, also did not do. I think that this book did a good job of having people from different cultures and you felt like the people were from these different cultures. I can't remember everyone's name, but the German girl had some German references. The Korean kid had some Korean references, the Mexican guy had some Mexican you know Spanish references. It felt like, even if it's just a teeny bit of taste, it felt like not everyone was just Americana because the author is American, you know Like. It felt like she really brought in some flavor building of these different cultures.

Jonathan:

She brought in accents in the audiobook too.

Kelly:

But it makes no sense. Why are Koreans worshiping Greek gods? Why are, you know, South Americans and Mexicans worshiping Greek gods?

Mari:

Well, if you have a modern world with internet and everything, then it's not so, it's more global. You know what I mean? It's not like it has to be just in the Greek area. It could be that whatever there's been spread of that religion to other cultures, I don't know.

Kelly:

Yeah, sure, that's possible. I mean, religion can be spread. But the problem I have is that if all of the gods are real and you have asian pantheons, as the author mentioned, then why would koreans, japanese, chinese, why would they decide to worship gods outside of the ones that their ancestors worship? Because that is a very strong thing in asian culture is adherence to ancestor practices.

Jonathan:

I just do not see it happening. The Greek gods won the war.

Ashley:

I was just going to say, like Zeus probably rolled up and shut it all down. This is my place.

Jonathan:

Yeah, the real question here is why don't the Greek gods speak with Greek accents?

Kelly:

Well it's. I agree that maybe Zeus shut it all down, but that should have been a very important part of the world building. Is that there was a war in the heavens between all the pantheons of gods, and the Greek gods won, but that was never mentioned or even hinted at.

Ashley:

So I have to presume that all the pantheons are powerful. I was going to say it sounds like you wanted another 200 pages in this book.

Jonathan:

Kelly needs a prequel. Abigail write Kelly a prequel about how Zeus and Specifically for Kelly. This has to be pre, they did speak about the war.

Mari:

But it was a war between the Titans and the gods.

Kelly:

Yeah, it was the war within the Greek gods, not a war with other pantheons. Collateral damage so, the games.

Summer:

They may have covered it more further on in the book, but the games that they're holding to figure out the king of the gods is that across all, or is it just for the greek?

Mari:

the greek gods okay okay, interesting, all right, all right. Romance summer. Did you want to say anything about the romance aspect?

Summer:

a little bit of an opinion, I don't. I wouldn't say romance, I would say right out the gate there is an overwhelming feel of love just across the board, like she can't be loved and he's got this supposed ache of like losing Persephone again. I wouldn't say that romance technically, but it's definitely heavily integrated.

Mari:

I would say for me the romance was a four, and I say that because it was very to me. It was a very specifically Jane Austen Pride and Prejudice a little pining, that pining the hand barely touching that hand moment from the new Pride and Prejudice movie. It was that kind of a feel between them. For me, for the majority of it was a lot of pining and I thought the pining was really well done. And then there was also some pretty major sacrifice that they did for each other. Yeah, I thought the romance was was a four for me. I thought it. There were parts where I was questioning it. There was some miscommunication stuff. There's some stuff that happens that I'm just like why do you do that? And then two chapters, two chapters later, oh, that's why he did that. Yeah, so I'd say four for romance for me.

Ashley:

I agree, I agree. I agree with a four. I agree with the pride and prejudice. I agree that if anyone tells me right now that Mr Darcy wasn't autistic, that I would call you crazy to your face even though there's no faces right now but I would do it. And so not that I believe Hades is autistic, presenting in the way that Mr Darcy was, but I do think there is that.

Ashley:

I've been in my ways for so long. I don't know how to bend Right, I don't, but I know that I have to. I have to fix this, I have to find a way. I have to save her, I have to be with her, but also I have to follow my own plan. He's got to have all the things and he's got to have it now and he's got to have it his way.

Ashley:

And so I do think that there was a heavy romance feel throughout the whole book. I think it says so much about a human, an actual human, that was cursed to be unloved and for her to have amassed the loyalty that she did in its place and how she actually, like, vibrated or exuded loyalty as well because of the thing that she lacked and always wanted there it was. You could smell it throughout the whole book and for that I loved every second of it. You, just you, wanted it to be better for her and even at some point jonathan was like well, she was lied to right like the. She wasn't cursed, but obviously she was, and for reasons in the final trial that it comes to. You know attention. But you know, in the same way that they had, they had trouble throughout most of the series identifying what hades team theme was. I'm forgetting the word virtue what.

Ashley:

What hades virtue was? And it was survival. Right, it ends up being survival and and she personifies that as well right like. Could any of us fully imagine going through life knowing that you couldn't be loved and not necessarily acknowledging the other emotions that you could receive as well? Man, how devastating yeah, very lonely and kudos to her for being a decent fucking human in spite of it, so much empathy.

Mari:

She had so much all of it.

Ashley:

She had all the empathy yeah all of it the so, while there was romance between her and hades, and a lot of it was tension, the relationship building that happens with the rest of the characters in spite of her right, right, like they didn't want to be her friend and she just got up under their skin. The way that Jane does with Mr Darcy, right, yeah, ugh, I loved it all.

Mari:

Um Jonathan.

Jonathan:

I'm going to give it a four. I thought it was a polite slow burn and it felt from the very beginning, at Zeus's temple, like, and that's so. When I it made me question if the curse was real, like the whole, the entire book, the entire middle of the book, I was like there's no way this curse is real, because I can sort of feel this, this love burning between these two, and so I was like, hmm, okay, so, yeah, I'm going to give it a four, maybe a 4.5. I'm going to be bold 4.5.

Ashley:

Good job.

Kelly:

I feel like the romance in this book was pretty decent. It was a nice slow build up and burn to the end. I think the author did a good job of balancing the emotions back and forth, where you can see the conflict in Hades about getting involved and that sort of thing. So it was a pretty good romantic scenario. So, yeah, I would say I'd give it a four. I felt like it was definitely better than a lot of the romance elements in books we've read.

Mari:

And about spice. I think, Summer, you probably didn't really get too much of the spice where you're at no, I think we're like still barely touching there's a lot of a lot of pining and yeah hoarding and whatnot. I think um spice. I think happened like I don't know 70 into the book.

Kelly:

It's a ways in there.

Mari:

So for me, the spice was actually, I would say, a four and because, uh, it exceeded my expectations in terms of how well it was done. There's not a lot of spice, but the spice was well done, I think is appropriately placed for the plot of the story and I think it worked with power dynamics. It worked with that. She was the one who was like hey, I'm just going to go into here naked and like you come if you want to come and if not, that's fine. Yeah, I mean, it was all macho, uh bravado on her end because she would have fallen two pieces had he had he rejected her. But I thought it was well done, spice. So, yeah, I'd say it was a four for me I think it.

Ashley:

I think it was polite spice, I I don't think there was a lot of detail and that just might not be her jam, right, abigail's jam. I think we get more spice out of someone like Rebecca Yaros More detailed spice, forgive me. So I agree that it was sufficiently placed in the story. It wasn't rushed, it wasn't unthought of, it wasn't in a hurry. I thought it was sufficiently placed in the story. It wasn't rushed, it wasn't unthought of, it wasn't in a hurry. I just thought I thought it was. I thought it was adequate. I wasn't unhappy about it. I wasn't thrilled about it. I thought she could have done a little bit more. That might not be her jam, and to each their own. So it's a three for me.

Jonathan:

For spice. Yeah, spice Spice for spice, spice spice. It was minimal, I'm going to give it a two and a half. Two and a half killing your averages here. I figured two and a half. The spice wasn't there. It took a long way. It took like 75% of the book to get to the word cock.

Ashley:

There's a lot of burning she got them quality discount extra long wicks way.

Jonathan:

for her it took like 75% of the book to get to the word cock, there's a lot of burning. Yeah, there's a lot of burning. She got them quality, discount extra long wicks. I'm looking for a firecracker, yeah, so I'm going to give it a. What did I say? I gave it.

Ashley:

Two and a half.

Jonathan:

Two and a half. Yeah, I'm going to stick with that. I'm going to stick with a two and a half.

Mari:

Can we?

Kelly:

So we had a long buildup to the spice and I felt like the long buildup didn't really pay off as big as the buildup to it was. So it felt like a little bit of a letdown to some degree, and that may just be the author style. I'm trying to remember in the Dominion series how spicy it was.

Ashley:

It was not.

Kelly:

I'm looking back at our review of the Liar's Crown right, the Liar's Crown and the Liar's Crown and we didn't score the spice very highly on that book either. But what was there? I mean, I felt it was a good and polite description of events, but definitely not. I guess it wasn't what I was expecting as far as all of the buildup and hype to it.

Mari:

See that, all right. The cover was done by the publishing team, the Red Tower design team. That's all I could find on it. When she released the cover picture, that's all she said on it. Generally we talk about the cover and whether it would have caught our attention and whether we think it's reflective of what was in the book. Do you have anything?

Summer:

to say about that. I think what was on the audio book. I wouldn't say it gave anything. I can see it being an integral part. It played a part to like key elements of what we're in it, but based on like the whole of the book, I wouldn't say it represented it very well.

Mari:

I don't know what I think too. Like I, it's fine. The special edition book is pretty because it's got the covered you know the sides of the pages painted, so it's pretty. But honestly, if I were walking past it I would think it was like a fantasy battle book, like a war book. So for me it's just maybe like a three or 2.5. 2.5, I would say honestly Jonathan, no, ash, I'm sorry.

Ashley:

Ash, I love the cover and I love the sprayed edges. I think maybe the sprayed edges have more to do with it than the cover and it probably took me at least halfway through to recognize the rel, the relevancy of the cover versus the book. But 100 that cover is what made me buy the book, so I will rate this pretty high. I think it was before four. I was very happy with it and I thought the print inside the pages was also just lovely. I loved it a lot. I think it's far more relevant than a lot of the books that we've read covered to story meaning and I think we're going to find out more about the relics in future stories, so I'm excited for that.

Jonathan:

I agree, I'm going gonna give the cover a five, a five, a five.

Ashley:

I bought this book purely for the cover yeah, he didn't know that I already bought it.

Jonathan:

I think, yeah it is is a pretty book, the so. So a couple things on here. One when you get the dust jacket off, the beautiful dust jacket as it is, and you unveil just this, like Navy blue with a little bit of um, shininess, uh on it. So that was cute. So what I will probably do is I will airbrush the, the Fox, the Panther, the tarantula and the owl on on the front, but on the back I want to reserve something a little bit special for the butterflies, cause I think the butterfly is um is a little bit more significant, even because I think the butterfly is um is a little bit more significant, even though we don't have a hugely, it's not a massive present presence, it's just anchored we didn't even talk about the tattoos fuck yeah, it was a good.

Mari:

It was a good gift it's a cool little world building thing.

Jonathan:

Yeah, I love magical tattoos one thing that the cover does for me that I'd be interested. I'd be keen, keen to hear Kelly's thoughts on this. The relics, the axes on the front it just screams Fated Mates to me because she had this relic for years, right?

Ashley:

Out of the blue.

Jonathan:

Out of the blue, it was just. No matter how she tried to get rid of it, it came back to her Without having actually achieved something, too?

Ashley:

is what she said Correct? It was sent to her by someone actually achieved something, too Correct. Is what she said Correct.

Jonathan:

It was sent to her by someone, something, somehow it was divine. Yeah, it was divine. Yeah, and it's a Hades relic. So for me, it's just giving off a whole bunch of these Fated Mates vibes. So I'd be keen to hear Kelly's opinion on that.

Mari:

What do you think, Kelly?

Kelly:

So I only read the Kindle version. So of course I can't comment about the sprayed edges and other aspects of the cover, Only the image that was provided for the Kindle version and I thought it was pretty basic. Like just looking at it, okay, you've got the two crossed axes and like some Greek ruins or something around, Okay, but that's it. So nothing, I don't know, nothing that really tells you anything about what's going to happen in this book or what's even inside of it. I mean, for all we know, looking at the cover, if you were to just look at that cover and said the games gods play, I would not have picked Greek gods as the ones involved in this.

Kelly:

I would have immediately thought of the Norse gods, because you don't think of the Greek gods when you see axes with intricate carvings on them. That seems to be very much a Norse, Icelandic type thing, Viking thing. So I don't know that. I would have immediately jumped to Greek gods because while there is some famous axes involved in Greek mythology, like Labrys, which was the double-headed axe that Zeus had, I would not have picked that. Just because of the lower association of axes as weapons in Greek mythology. I don't think it was a very good cover in that aspect. As far as the quality of the artwork, it looked fine. So just based on would it have drawn me in or would it represent what's actually in the book, I would say no and I would just give it a three. Or would it represent what's actually?

Mari:

in the book, I would say no and I would just give it a three. Okay, now the final, final, final question Is it a kissing book? Would you say it's romantic? Do you want to answer?

Summer:

first Summer. So, without knowing the rest of it, I think it is personally.

Mari:

I have been thinking about this back and forth since yesterday. I finished it yesterday, I think it's not. I think there is romance in it, but I think that even without that romance, I think the story would still kind of happen the way it did, because I think he picked her because of the Oracle or whatever. Maybe the Oracle said it was her because of love, I don't know, but he picked her because of the Oracle, whatever. Maybe the Oracle said it was her because of love, I don't know, but he picked her because of the Oracle. She did what she was doing because she wanted to get the curse taken off. I don't know. I'm going to say no, I'm going to say not Romantici.

Ashley:

I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say yes, romantici. I think this goes back to even the axes, the relics and her having one and her coming across Hades in Zeus's temple. Like none of these things make sense. I think he picked her because of the curse and I think it evolved from there.

Ashley:

I think if she had not fallen for him, she would not have pushed as hard or as long as she did to get him king of the gods, and I think if he had not fallen for her, she would have just died and he not. He would not have progressed in the trials. He needed her for the final trial, unequivocally, come hell or high water, that was the only way to to win that trial, and I'm trying not to spoil it for the girl. And so I think, while the intentions were very specific in him choosing her, I think he still fell along the way because otherwise he just would have let her die and he would have been out this crucible and needed a different path. So for me it's romanacy. The story could not have continued without the both of them having been in their feelings and fighting for each other, even in their shitty secret way.

Jonathan:

Husband to the calculator. So I just I plopped this one through the calculator plopped it through plopped it right through. I just let it. Let's like plunked it down how's it coming for? You it's coming. So it came out with a 50 score at the bottom of the calculator. So now you have to go on vibes I had to go on vibes, and so the vibe that I'm electing to go on is, uh, I'm going to say TBD.

Ashley:

No, you gotta pick a side of the fence.

Jonathan:

That's what we do I know right, this book has me in TBD zone, Like I genuinely do it through the calculator, figuring that I would go, but it like hit a solid 50%. Here's why I'm going to say it's TBD and this is where I think. This is where I think that that Mari is maybe on the fence a little bit. We don't have enough information. I think we're at this point where the entire, the entire story could, could be impacted by their romance in the second book and cause, that's what that this, that's where the pain point is is genuinely going to occur and that's a transitional journey in the series. And I think that alone cause, if you say, if you, if I say, no, it's not, it's not romantic today.

Jonathan:

And we, and with the based on purely on the idea that, yeah, sure, if you take her out of it and it you know, because what happens? He doesn't, if you take her out of the story, that he doesn't win, he's not going to win the crucible at that point, the crucible at that point, and yeah, maybe he picked her because some Oracle told her to pick her, told him to pick her. That that was the best way, that was the best pathway, the most logical pathway to win the crucible when you get to the next level. What he does next will determine if this book is romantic for me or not. So if how he reacts reacts to the to that last page of the book is what's going to determine for me if this is romancy. So I either you take the tbd, yeah, I take the tbd.

Kelly:

That's all I'm gonna offer at this point I don't think you can really give it a tbd. Jonathan, what's that? I don't think you can give it a tbd that's too bad.

Jonathan:

That's what you got. You got a TBD out of me. I mean, I guess you just take penicillin to get over it.

Ashley:

We're at least in a better position in that if the calculator doesn't rate it the way that he wants, then it's not at all. So we're making some progress here guys. One thing I'm going to throw back in your face not 10 minutes.

Jonathan:

I'm going to rub it on my chest. I'm going to lather it in your face. Come on, let's go.

Ashley:

It's not. 10 minutes ago we said relics equals faded mates and now you're going to be like. I don't know if this is romanticcy.

Jonathan:

I don't know if it's romanticcy.

Ashley:

I don't know.

Jonathan:

I need to see his reaction.

Ashley:

I don't understand.

Jonathan:

The proof is in the pudding. I need to see the reaction.

Ashley:

You just need to see him blow the gasket to change your mind, if he blows the gasket.

Jonathan:

If he's like you know what, fuck it, I'm all in If he rolls up his fancy pants, aeropostale, sweater sleeves with the fake thumb holes in there. They're really just button holes, but he can slide his thumb through it. If that's what he does, you are wild. Wild, I am wild.

Becky:

I am unruly, you are wild, wild, I am wild I am unruly, you are unhinged.

Jonathan:

No, I'm not unhinged, I didn't shave my head. So, in the sake of fairness, if we took away that last jaw drop, then what would you rate it? You mean like the last, the last? Yeah, if we took that away, then, no, it's not romantic, but it's there, it exists. So I don't know now. It's confused. Me it's blurred. The line is easily confused. Jonathan's answer is like the little spooling symbol.

Mari:

Your answer is the little spooling symbol. You're just thinking.

Jonathan:

That's right. I'm like, yeah, exactly, it's like a GeoCities. The page is loading.

Ashley:

Did this book break you? It's like the blue screen of death. Yeah, yeah, the book is blue.

Mari:

It screen of death. Yeah, yeah, it broke.

Jonathan:

It broke the calculator I don't know if this, if this, no, then that their next read is probably going to break the cock. There's not enough. I mean holy, holy shit. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to take up religion after that just wait oh my god, um. So yeah, like I don't know if this book broke me, but but it made me. This is probably the first one I don't know, this isn't the first one that makes me want to read more.

Mari:

Kelly.

Kelly:

So I had to say this is not Romanesie. And the reason I say it's not Romanesie is because the whole Hades did not have any intention of falling in love with her and although that happened, the romance was not essential to the plot, which was her winning the game and in fact I would say that the romance could even be was a detriment to her win, because he didn't need her to be in love with him. He needed her to win. He needed her to remain unlovable in order to win. So had she not fallen in love with him, he still would have continued to use her to win the game.

Mari:

Yeah, plus, I think she was all about trying to save everybody. She was very loyal to her friends, wanting everyone to stay alive, and yeah. So I don't know, I don't know. I still say no. That's my answer, but I can see how it goes either way, all right. Anything else about that book before we go to our special guests? All right? So, summer and Becky, tell me once again the name of your company.

Summer:

It's Summer Reading Creations and what is it? It is I don't know how to say it without because there is a bigger company that actually does something specific. So it's like adjacent to that, but it's basically a mystery book. It's like blindly wrapped. Essentially, I'm just going to say it's a blind date with a book.

Mari:

Yeah, that's the only thing that's dropping into people, right? Hey, I saw this company. They do blind dates with books.

Summer:

I don't like to advertise it because there is a company called blind date with a book. They don't do what we do, it's just a blank book, um, but it is the concept and that's the original creator of the idea, so I don't want to advertise it as that. But it's so difficult to explain it without saying that it's a gift to yourself.

Mari:

It is because you don't know what's in it, right? So I'm going to describe what I saw as a customer of theirs. Like I walked up and there's a table and there's all these books with really pretty like almost origami, japanese style like wrapping on it with little like pockets in the front, and in the pockets there were little. Well, there were, I'm trying to remember now. There were like two different kinds. There was like a black base, because it was halloween, and then there was like brown wrapping and then they had like different things stuck in the little pockets, so like tea or coffee things or like bookmarks or little stickers and little things like that sticking out of them. And then there was a tag on each package and it would be like romanacy, I don't know I remember what else. Romanacy, blah, blah, blah. 3.5 or 4.0 rating on, uh, goodreads.

Mari:

And so you're picking a book and I will say the whole blind date with a book thing I first saw in a meet cute bookstore in san diego. It's a romance bookstore and that was the first time I'd ever seen or heard of that. I went in. I saw some cool stuff they had in the very back. They had blind date with a book and it was plain, just brown package, just plainly wrapped, and they just had like a little label on it that said a date with a skirted kilt man or something you know, kilted skirt, whatever, uh, kilted irishman, scottishman, something I don't remember.

Mari:

But that's the one I got and I mean it wasn't even that great of a book but the concept was cool, like it was fun. So I've always called it that because the first time I ever saw it that's how it was described. But it is, it's like a gift you're buying yourself and you don't know what it is. Just like when you give someone a gift they don't know what it is. Obviously it's a book, but you don't know what you're getting. So, other than randomly walking up to you in like a fall festival, how would people find you? Like, where would they get this?

Summer:

So Etsy is a good one. We just started out on Etsy. Our website is the main place. It's summerreadingcreationsshop Facebook. We do a lot of. We are tentatively on TikTok shop, but for for the most part I would say etsy or the website are the best two places um, I would say stuff like this I think about for the holidays, for like people you know who like books.

Mari:

Um, or you would want to get into books you know how people will do, like for christmas. Look at like lottery tickets for for stocking stuffers or for their family or whatever. I think this is a cool way to do, kind of like a random surprise gift for someone, without necessarily picking a specific book we actually have a Christmas collection coming out.

Summer:

They're going to be really cute wrapped in Christmas wrapping papers.

Jonathan:

Real quick. Is it summerreadingcreationsshop or summerreadingshop?

Summer:

It is summerreadingshop. You're right, summerreadingshop. I get thatshop. It is SummerReadingshop. You're right, summerreadingshop. I get that confused a lot. Everything else is Creations.

Jonathan:

I'm on the website. I'm like, oh man, am I on the wrong website? It's like starting Googling stuff.

Summer:

We started with SummerReadings and then quickly found out that that leads you into a whole line of like after-school programs. Oh yeah, so we added creations later on.

Mari:

How long have you guys been around?

Summer:

I opened in July and, honestly, it was just kind of a craft we talked about. Really, I, my whole house, is neurodivergent, so there's just a slew of dead projects everywhere, and so this was one of those that I picked up and assumed that would be put down and just hasn't surprised, right could you imagine if, like my mess and your mess met.

Jonathan:

It would just like an anomaly, would open up face it's. It looks very cute, like, uh, yeah, what? What hits me here is I'm personally, I'm not a mystery. I want to know what I'm getting All my belongings. I need to see all my belongings. At the same time, I wrestled this morning over throwing out the equivalent of a broken watch. I was like, well, maybe I can just save this half and like I know I'm not going to use it, right, so like, but I have to see it at all times. Like I put this in a clear bag and it has to be like one of those toy bins that you get for like kids so they can see their toys at all times Like that's how I have to see my stuff.

Jonathan:

My, I don't even have a dresser. I have like a no fold system idea of something mysterious to me. I don't do scratch offs cause I don't know Right. Um, but my wife is the opposite. She'll be like she'll go somewhere. She'll be like I'm looking for this specific item and they'll be like we have that. We also have this thing that is very much not likely going to be the item that you came here for, but it's a mystery, it could. And then she's like I'll take the mystery. You know what, give me four, you know like it's.

Jonathan:

That's who she is delightful treat so what this, what this says to me is like if you're, if you're out there looking for a gift to give somebody like this is a super duper, easy reading book lover funsy gift that if I'm just going to order it online, it's already listen, it's already coming fucking wrapped. It comes with all these little trinkets and little things with it. There's. Is that food? Is there like food in there? Is that? I'm looking at one. I can't tell what's in this pocket here. It looks like a back scratcher and some food.

Summer:

That's back scratcher and some food.

Jonathan:

That's actually a pin it's tea, um, you could do ice coffee, hot coffee teas and hot chocolate. See, I'm liking that and so like it's, like you're giving this, you're giving this it's. I'm telling you, like, if we don't find somebody to gift a book to this this holiday season, we don't have them, we don't have no, no friends. Um, like everywhere else you go, you have to pay for this extra wrapping. So to me, when I'm looking at this, I'm seeing a gift giving bargain.

Ashley:

You know what you call that. What we're coming full circle. Guys, wait for it. A sucker pack.

Jonathan:

Oh, it's a sucker pack.

Ashley:

I like it.

Jonathan:

We're good with sucker packs.

Ashley:

Yeah, no, we are full pro sucker pack in this house.

Summer:

We love a deal we're going to have a kids collection too soon.

Jonathan:

What's that that?

Summer:

could be good A kids collection. Oh, I like it, it'll be coming soon.

Jonathan:

I'm a big fan of Dr Seuss.

Summer:

What I think I like about it. As far as for a gift idea, I'm a gift giver. But as far as for a gift idea, I'm a gift giver and so it takes kind of the work out of it for you. But it doesn't take the impersonalization out of it Because you can still customize the genre that you think they would like or the beverage that you think they would like or the color combinations. So it's still a personal gift but also it took a lot of the work out of it for you.

Mari:

And you get a little bit of surprise with the person. So then you can be like hey, what was it? You have something to talk about. I'm all about an experience. Like I love giving experiences and getting experiences. So, like you know, um tickets to things you know, to movies or to events or to shows or whatever. So this, in a way, is an experience. It's a thing too, but it's an experience, because then you can be like hey, what was it? And then like hey. Then like hey, maybe we should read it together. Yeah, yeah, the books. Where do you guys get the books? Like, is it used books? Is it new books?

Summer:

So I would say 80% of them are used or re-owned. A lot of them actually come. Becky will source the local libraries and what are the boxes that you search?

Becky:

I mean like when we go to the neighborhoods. Oh, the free library.

Summer:

We were working with a local business in Lake Park. With the hurricane they lost a lot of their inventory, but they do that. They buy books from closed libraries and stuff and they'll repurpose them. So a lot of them 80% of them roughly are reused from like local or we found a vendor online that does that as well. However, you know, to keep open demand, there are a small percentage of the books that do come from bigger stores we really try to stay away from, like the big market stores. It's almost not possible to just completely steer clear of it. When we do, it's never going to be a brand new like 2024, yeah, book, talk, book. It's never going to be one of those. So we really research them to make sure that you're getting like a dated, like an adventure, If you want something that you're not just going to go to the bookstore and pick up and then not everybody's talking about right?

Mari:

um, it's always nice because, like, I've read some really good books this year that were not new this year. They're not. Some of them are like a decade old and they've, like I read the goblin emperor this year, which I don't know if I've heard any I've talked to you guys about, but I've talked to everybody else in the world. It feels like about it. It's like I think it was 2015 or something. I I don't know. It was published a little bit ago, not a romancy book, it's like pure fantasy. So good, so good, but I you're not gonna see that on tiktok and see that's the point we were actually.

Summer:

I think the start of this was searching those bookstores and just finding all these that were just ridiculous prices and discarded and they're good books. We read Dark Things. I Adore.

Becky:

That's one of my top five reasons Such a good book.

Summer:

But it was. I think we paid a dollar for it because it was just discarded and both of us were like why this is so good?

Mari:

I love the whole like environmental aspect of reusing, because there's nothing wrong with the book, like if you've read it it doesn't mean somebody else can't read it, it's not like it's been used up, you know. I mean like if it's not one that you want to keep and reread or treasure or whatever, pass it on. And this is a cool way to pass it on to somebody, to to recirculate these used books that are out there to someone who might not have otherwise known about them or pick them up.

Summer:

When we get like some of the books, they're not aesthetically pleasing. You don't have like the crisp white pages, but that's kind of the fun of it too. I like it an older book. It's not going to be tattered and ripped on the seams or anything, but you're going to have a feel to it.

Mari:

It's got personality, it's seen some stuff, all right.

Jonathan:

Anything else you guys want to say or anything else you guys want to ask them. I'm a fan of maybe not to the extent of book restoration, but I do like to breathe a little bit more life into them. It's 100% possible to crisp up those edges and to give it some new personality.

Summer:

It's one of my favorites.

Jonathan:

There's hobbies, Hobbies now again is playing with some recovering and some airbrushing lately but. Yeah.

Jonathan:

I'll harass you a little bit, don't worry. But yeah, I oftentimes and I do I buy, I'll go on and buy like a bunch of used books. It's just you're right. It's just you're right, it's it. It gives it new life and it's just it's a very creative. It's a creative way to gift. I think books are like records. You know it's. If they're not, you know you can use them and gift and just passing them along is is just a kind, a kind way to say I was thinking about you.

Mari:

And having you guys, Jonathan and Ash, living in Florida and us living here in Georgia and having just been through some hurricanes, it's nice to have some entertainment that you don't have to plug in. I read a book about nature fighting back during the hurricane.

Kelly:

Did not plan to do it.

Mari:

I'm like oh, this is getting a little real here. It was good, but it was a little real. It was a Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. I'll tell you in a second what it was. Give me one second List here.

Jonathan:

Is Sarah with an H. I can see the cover, but I can't think of the name it was.

Mari:

Sarah Beth Durst who wrote the Spellshop? It was the Queen of Blood, her Queens of Renthea series. Yeah, it was like an enchanted forest kind of thing that fights back, fights back like, kills people, and like the hurricanes going on, I'm like, oh man, bad timing. Yeah, all right, anything else before I do the little outro, would you guys like to come back and do that sometime, like actually give you time to read the book and do something with us. I think that'd be fun, yeah, okay.

Summer:

So I'm going gonna read the outro, unless anybody has anything to say.

Mari:

I just want to say podcast in general, the episode where you guys just the mummy maybe all right. So thanks for listening to of swords and soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate, review and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us. Follow us on Instagram at of swords and soulmates, or join our Facebook page at of swords and soulmates, or check out our website of soulmatescom, and we're available on YouTube, tiktok and now Pinterest.

Mari:

Who want to look at some of these funky covers we're talking about? You know? Follow us on there. If you'd like to offer suggestions for future rapid-fire questions, reach out to us on those options, the media or on email at marislowmatescom. If you want to read along with us as we prepare for a new episode, you can follow us on Goodreads at Upstarts and Slowmates. Or if you want the chapter-by-chapter interaction and breakdown, as I do my telenovela guests, you can join our book club on Fable. We have a Swords and Soulmates book club on the Fable app. We hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode, when we will have a different special guest star the Hissin' and Kissin' podcast crew and we will read and talk about Morning Glory, and I see him in this custom.

People on this episode

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Mari

Host
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Ashley

Co-host
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Jonathan

Co-host
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Kelly

Co-host

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