Of Swords and Soulmates

"A Court of Thorns and Roses" - Our Review (Finally)

• Mari • Season 1 • Episode 16

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Prepare for a whimsical journey through the realms of bookish fantasy and romance as we recount our latest reading adventure. We can't contain our excitement about the thrilling book releases on the horizon, including "Pride and Prejudice in Space" by Alexis Lampley and the enchanting Fairy Loot edition of "Kiki's Delivery Service." Our inner geeks are also buzzing over Ruby Dixon's upcoming minotaur stories, which promise to add a fresh twist to the fantasy genre.

Finally, we review and discuss the behemoth romantasy book, A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas. Our hearts (and ratings) are divided over this novel. Kelly and Jonathan's differing takes on its Beauty and the Beast-inspired storyline reveal the book's slow progression and the interesting dynamics that evolve as the series unfolds and how foreknowledge of a series can affect your opinions. Our debate is lively, chuckling at sunk cost fallacies and swapping anecdotes of how character developments have swayed our opinions.

We delve into a passionate exploration of the fantasy-rich world and the intricate web of romance spun within. From examining the transformative journey of its protagonist to assessing the book's "spice" factor, we leave no stone unturned. Aa usual, we also have a spirited discussion about the impact of its cover art, and whether some of us will continue the series. Prepare for an engaging ride through the heart of fantasy and romance!

  • Links from the News Segment and Show
    • Pride and Prejudice in Space by Alexis Lampley
    • Fairyloot special edition of Kiki’s Delivery Service
      • Not part of the normal monthly box, must order separately 
      • Early access October 17th or 18th (non-subscribers)
      • Link to details (FaceBook)
      • Hardcover, digitally sprayed edges, custom endpapers, and more
    • The Enchanted Greenshouse by Sarah Beth Durst
    • Bull Moon Rising by Ruby Dixon
    • Hissin and Kissin - A Monster Lover Podcast

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Goodreads - http://www.goodreads.com/ofswordsandsoulmates

Ashley:

Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants. The hosts make no claim to be literary experts and their opinions are exactly that opinions. All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and is being used under the fair use doctrine.

Mari:

Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch and discuss romanticist stories. I'm one of your hosts, mari, and with me I have Kelly.

Kelly:

Hey everyone, it's Kelly. We also have Ashley.

Ashley:

Hey, it's Ashley. We also have Jonathan.

Jonathan:

What's good, it's JP.

Mari:

How's everybody doing Good.

Mari:

Good, I am better than I was last time we recorded, because I was just getting strapped last time, so I still have some stuffiness in my voice, but this is a billion times better than I was. I will say, like I posted in the social media stuff, we were mildly affected by Hurricane Helene, so we're recording in a different location. So if this sounds off or different than what you guys are used to hearing, that is why. So please bear with us. Today, we will be discussing A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J Maas, which obviously I'm excited that we finally did. But before we get into it, we're going to do some news. All right, the first thing I'm going to put on here is I've been following this. I've already pre-ordered this and I've been following it for a while, and I've had two people individually message me about it. So I'm very, very excited and think that I probably will like this. There's a book coming out. It's called Pride and Prejudice in Space, in Space, in Space.

Ashley:

I like the zombie one.

Mari:

Yeah, the zombie one is fun. I liked it better. I like the zombie one better as a like. I like the movie better than the book Like. Visually I thought it was cool.

Mari:

This one is written by Alexis Lampley, who she is, I think, the main artist on Nerd. Nerd Inky is what it's called. They do really cool book covers. The book cover, please, nerd Ink, is that what it is? Yeah, yeah, so she's the artist at Nerd Ink and this is her first book. So I follow Nerdy Ink. You know Nerdy Inc. I'm sorry, nerdy Inc. N-e-r-d-y-i-n-k. So I follow Nerdy Inc. And then I saw this book start to come up. So it's going to be released in October. The release date is October 15th and it's a retelling of the Jane Austen Pride and Prejudice, one of my favorite books. But in space and the way that the blurb reads, I think it's going to have some of the vibes of the old Dune movie, not the new one, the old one where it's just like space opera kind of vibe to it. I'm excited. I hope it's good. The cover is really pretty. The cover looks like a 70s sci-fi book to me. It looks like a really pretty illustration.

Ashley:

Well, and it sounds like it's going to have a lot of illustration throughout the book, which makes sense them being part of a book cover print business. Yeah, it's very, it's stunning, it's really pretty.

Mari:

I believe that they're doing a special cover for it If you pre-order it through them. I think it is. There's an alternate cover where you can do a reversible cover. I like the cover of the original one better. I pre-ordered this back in April.

Ashley:

It's been on my radar for a while.

Mari:

But I kept having other news and stuff for this, for the podcast, but now I'm finally like I need to talk about it because it's about to come out. But yeah, the illustrations in it look really cool. Lots of spacey, like I don't know. It's got a very 70s vibe. It's like pastels in space, like the cover is like a flowy dress and it's got this like bubble over her head as like a helmet, and then like this, I don't know, rainbow pastel Lisa Frank looking planet in the background. I am excited about it. I hope it's good, but we will see. The other thing I was going to say is that I was excited about this too.

Mari:

Fairy Loot, which we've talked about in the past, is releasing a special edition version of Kiki's Delivery Service. Have you guys? I know Kelly and I have watched this and we're fans. But did you guys ever watch the Kiki's Delivery Service? I have not. I think you guys would enjoy it. It's, I mean, it's Ghibli, studio Ghibli, so it's animated, it's very sweet. It's a, it's a kid's story. I mean, she's a, she's a witch, but it's like she's a witch. Yeah, the way like the spell shop is like, it's very much like spell shop. Yeah, right, yeah, and the book is really good too. I read the book recently. I had watched the movie a few times. I read the book for the first time this year, just recently.

Mari:

But fairy loot is doing a special edition version of kiki's delivery service. It's a hardcover and it's going to have a cover designed by Josie Smizik. It's going to have digitally sprayed edges. It's going to have artwork on the cover, custom endpapers. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this.

Mari:

This is outside of their normal subscription, so even if you don't have a Fairyloot subscription, you can still get this. It's going to be $31 plus shipping. They're located in the UK and it would ship in May or June of 2025. But if you want to order it early access for the Fairyloot people who live in the UK, it's going to be on the 17th. Well, actually, for all the Fairyloot people like it's 1pm British Standard Time for people who live in the UK, 4pm British Standard Time for Fairyloot subscribers outside of the UK and then, if they have anything remaining, for the rest of us peons that aren't Fairyloot subscribers, it'll be on October 18th at 1pm British Standard Time for UK customers and 4pm British Standard Time for US and Canadian customers. In the past, I've gotten stuff from them and been able to get it at that last, like you know, when it's available to everybody else, kind of thing. So they do a pretty good job of having enough available for who they think there's going to be interested. They do good quality books I'm excited about that one.

Ashley:

Yeah, I've never heard any complaints about them. I just haven't dabbled yet and I would absolutely recommend the delivery service.

Mari:

It's, it's a cute, I would say maybe fall, fall vibes. Cute little movie to watch around this time of the year.

Mari:

Yeah, oh, the other thing that I posted on social media when I first found out about it too, is that Sarah Beth Durst, who wrote the Spell Shop, is doing another book in that world. I don't know if I would call it a prequel or a sequel the way it's marketed is a standalone book in that world. But it's basically the creator of Kaz. So I think it's going to have a little bit of prequel of how Kaz got created. And then, of course, her name is Terla Perna Terluna she, you know, gets turned into that statue as punishment, but apparently it's like, and then she wakes up and then this book happens. So I think it's going to be a little bit before and a little bit after. Oh yeah, kaz's mommy. Yeah, I'm excited about that, I think. I think it's going to be fun.

Mari:

In the little announcement sarah beth said the it's called the enchanted greenhouse. Sorry, I didn't say that. The enchanted greenhouse is set in the same world as a spell shop. It's about terlu parna, the librarian who created kaz and was transformed into a wooden statue as punishment. That should have been the end of her story. Yet one day terlu wakes up.

Ashley:

Dot dot, dot it's gonna be, hopefully before it went up in flame, maybe that's what caused her to wake up.

Jonathan:

Maybe the person who imprisoned her was like dead. Deaded themselves and, as a result, their magic died with them and she was released from her worldly bonds. So that's going to be released July of 2025.

Mari:

So next summer we'll have that to look forward to. So far, I know the cover looks really pretty. Though the cover was released, it has that same similar feeling as the Spellshop does. Also, we have there's a new book coming out by Ruby Dixon. It is Bull Moon Rising. It is a Minotaur story, so like a monster romance female main character and Minotaur for the other character. Ruby Dixon is who wrote Ice Planet Barbarians. For anyone who's not doesn't instantly know that name and associate it with Ice Planet Barbarians. She is the Ice Planet Barbarian creator. So that book comes out October 15th of this year and if you pre-order it or like the first run of it, there's like a hard cover that's very sparkly and very pretty.

Jonathan:

It looks like it's got some really pretty edge edge paintings as well.

Mari:

It's like a dark blue with like leaves and a moon maybe and stars in like white on it. And then it's got pictures and papers, like pictures on the inside, inside end papers. It looks like it's like a sparkly, almost pastel rainbow thing on the cover and then under the cover it's like a, a pink um with a dark blue image on it. So yeah, it has very much of that sweet kind of lisa frank kind of vibe to it to me and I'm that may be just me showing my age, but this feels like the Trapper Keeper covers.

Jonathan:

I've got to ask you tangentially Are you a Lisa Frank fan or just in general of the artwork? I like the artwork growing up.

Mari:

Well, I like the idea of the artwork growing up. I mean, it was always like the expensive stuff. I never actually had any actual Lisa Frank stuff that was not in our price range, but I remember liking it. I never actually had any actual Lisa Frank stuff that was not in our price range, but I remember liking it. I remember coveting it. Let me put it that way.

Jonathan:

I was in the same boat and then a few years ago I want to say like mid-pandemic Trapper Keeper released throwbacks and so I am now as an adult because you do adult things with adult money so I was able to go back and purchase myself that Trapper Keeper. I am like six inches from it, right now. I never use it, but I'm still glad that I have it. Thank you, nostalgia.

Mari:

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. It makes you happy, you know. But yeah, it looks really good. I have never read anything of Ruby Dixon's other than her Ice Planet Barbarians, which is technically sci-fi, but I know Ruby Dixon has a lot of fantasy books out there which I would say, by what I'm looking at, the synopsis of this Minotaur kind of thing, it looks like it's in the fantasy realm, but I've heard good things about those books too her fantasy books too so I'll probably end up reading this. There's a lot of Ruby Dixon books that I want to read, but this one's definitely going on that list. Have you guys read any Minotaur stories before Anybody?

Jonathan:

Not specifically Minotaur stories before Anybody. Not specifically Minotaur, although I think my most recent interaction with an impactful Minotaur is in the Netflix show Chaos.

Mari:

I still haven't seen that.

Jonathan:

And that's so tiny, that's a blip. Okay, I enjoyed it.

Ashley:

Yeah, no, I'm definitely going to watch it. I think there's a Minot. Okay, I enjoyed it. Yeah, no, I'm definitely gonna watch it. I think there's a minotaur in the percy jackson series I've heard that, but it's been so long since I've read all of the books that I don't remember. I don't believe I've read a minotaur in a romance or fantasy setting, otherwise but wait, I think maybe we have, we have, we have. Say more.

Jonathan:

Okay, everybody sitting down.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Jonathan:

Beauty and the Beast.

Ashley:

You think the Beast is a Minotaur.

Jonathan:

I mean, what is a Minotaur?

Ashley:

No.

Jonathan:

Half bull, half dude.

Ashley:

Is a Minotaur fuzzy, though A Minotaur was the head of a bull in the body of a person.

Mari:

I thought that's what a Minotaur was. I thought that's what a minotaur was. I thought that was the physical description, right.

Jonathan:

More or less Pretty much a beast, Although you know what that's the beast. The beast got the little tiny hand.

Ashley:

I see it. Now that you say it, I see it.

Jonathan:

I can't unsee it now.

Mari:

You didn't know that that was French slash Greek mythology.

Jonathan:

That's what I do.

Mari:

I ruined childhoods. I can definitely see the idea of where that comes from. I will say that in our future, as a podcast, we will be reading a Minotaur story.

Jonathan:

Is that the Land of Milk and Honey story?

Mari:

It's the Morning Glory Milking Farm.

Jonathan:

Ah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Mari:

So we met. I met some podcasters at Dragon Con that we will be doing a collaboration with in the future. You know, surprise, it's going to be Morning Glory Milking Farm. Yep, that's a minotaur. It's two of them. I only met yeah, I only met Sarah. So the podcast that I'm talking about is called Hissin' and Kissin'. It's without the G, so it's H-I-S-S-I-N and K-I-S-S-I-N and it's a for adult audience podcast because there's Cussin and stuff in it.

Jonathan:

So you know. Fyi for anyone who's listening when you say Cussin is that with a? G or without a G. That's without a G, that's without a G.

Mari:

It's all without Gs.

Jonathan:

I just wanted to make sure we're saying Eric correct here Eric, eric, eric.

Mari:

Eric Eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, eric, Eric Eric. Pop culture references. But if anyone is interested, jonathan or anybody else, about learning about more Minotaur stuff, I would recommend that podcast. It was a fun one.

Jonathan:

You know what makes me wonder about Minotaurs? Are there any Maxitaurs?

Mari:

So I am trying furiously to look up, because my Greek mythology mythology stories yes, that's what I thought.

Jonathan:

Okay, my greek mythology lore is very bad, as we've said before I like it, this one, this the one we're going to read about, though, and the milk and honey has a brain, right so it's not called milk and honey, it's called morning glory milking farm.

Mari:

That's a different book. Yeah, it's Morning Glory Milking Farm by CS Nascosta and it's a Minotaur love story. Cm Nascosta has a whole series of monster romance stories. I've read several of them. They're pretty good, but she has two that I've read Minotaur stories, the Mordegory Milking Farm, and then Minotaur Minoan. Minoan Bride is a novella and she has an interesting spin on the Greek story that she uses in her lore. But yeah, that's what you're thinking of. I think that's the book you're thinking of.

Jonathan:

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. I just want to make sure Milk and Honey is a phrase, an expression that means prosperity and abundance.

Mari:

Like the Land of Milk and Honey.

Jonathan:

yeah, yeah, it's not bad. I'm not saying anything. I just want to make sure, if I say something bad accidentally, you should be like hey, that doesn't mean what I think you think.

Mari:

It means you should put a stop to that right away, got it, got it. But yes, ruby dixon minotaur book it'll be interesting to see how she does it because, like I said, I really like how she does the ice planet barbarians, so I'm sure she'll do minotaurs just as well.

Mari:

She writes good stories, so she better do, I just ordered it the bull moon rising yeah okay, all right, so we going to get into the book itself Court of Thorns and Roses, commonly shortened as ACOTAR, by Sarah J Maas. Why we read it? Because it's a juggernaut of the genre. We needed to read it, we needed to talk about it, ash and I needed the guys to have this as a frame of reference.

Mari:

You must stuff her with that, for some of the things that we can talk about, yes, or at least just have a common language for some of these things. All right. So it was published originally May 5th of 2015. I'm going to read the synopsis on it and then we can get into more details. When 19-year-old huntress Farrah kills a wolf in the woods, a terrifying creature arrives to demand retribution. Dragged to a treacherous, magical land she knows about only from legends, farrah discovers that her captor is not truly a beast, but one of the lethal, immortal fairies who once ruled her world. At least he's not a beast. All the time, as she adapts to her new home, her feelings for the fairy Tamlin transform from icy hostility into a fiery passion that burns through every lie she's been told about the beautiful, dangerous world of the Fae, but something is not right in the fairy lands.

Ashley:

An ancient, wicked shadow is growing, and Farah must find a way to stop it or doom Tamlin and his world forever. It always falls to a woman.

Jonathan:

you guys, Y'all get shit done. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying If left to our own devices, you see the state where you find us in we. You know, shit went sideways with Tam Tam and we need a woman. Step in there.

Mari:

So what did you guys think?

Ashley:

Non spoilery I would very much like the boys to go first, because you and I have thoughts and opinions, and this is not our first read, and so we have to hold it back.

Jonathan:

I nominate Kelly.

Ashley:

So much, kelly.

Kelly:

I don't know. I spent most of the book wondering what the hell was going on.

Jonathan:

Just like by yourself in a corner, like how do I open this thing? I can't. Like, if you turn, you can't open it. I think it's more like how did I get here in life is probably you had to walk with it. You had to walk.

Kelly:

Yes, I spent. I spent a lot of time pondering my poor life choices that have led to that moment. No, I just felt like for a lot of the book, reading the book, I had no idea what was going on with the plot, did you? Enjoy any of it. I mean finally, by the end, it started making sense and started actually going somewhere. I had a lot of trouble getting into it. Are we reading on this one? Finally, by the end, it started making sense and started actually going somewhere.

Ashley:

I had a lot of trouble getting into it. Are we rating on this one?

Jonathan:

Like an overall. You had a collective overall for this one, Kelly.

Kelly:

I mean probably like a three. I felt it was okay. It wasn't if the first two-thirds of the book had been written as well as, like, the last third of the book. As far as advancing the plot and making sense, I would have rated it higher.

Ashley:

And I get that.

Kelly:

There was effort by the author to try and make you feel more like the character where there wasn't like tons of exposition dropped on you so you knew what was going on, so that you were just in the as in the dark as the main female character was about what was going on, and that's great. Except if it confuses your reader, then it becomes a problem.

Ashley:

Yeah, fair, fair, so it sounds like a two he said a three. Jonathan, you're up, tell me more tell you more.

Jonathan:

Huh, okay, uh. So I I thought story started off real strong. I thought it was going like this is good, that's click this in the gear. I like how, I like where this is going you like the killing?

Ashley:

I got a lot. We're talking about stuff.

Jonathan:

Yet I got a lot of questions, a lot of questions, right, okay. And then I was like this thing shifted and uh, I feel like, had I had, I had like markers where, like, just like some sort of indicator, like marker, not like an actual, like crayola, but like an indicator of what parts of the book, when, when the action stopped and then when it would restart you could just skip that whole you could skip the.

Jonathan:

You could skip a whole bunch and not lose any of the story and just pick back up like and that, that's so.

Ashley:

I was like it went yeah to meh to yeah it was real, it was high, and then it was low. Yeah, and it was high yeah, the low last.

Jonathan:

So it was like high, and then it was low, and then it it was high, but the low lasted, so it was high, and then it was low and then it was flat. It stayed low, it stayed low and you were like any moment now.

Ashley:

Like a mountain one night, like a watch pot, doesn't?

Jonathan:

boil Like a mountain range. No, not even like a mountain range, it was like a flat bottom U like one of those block letter stencil U's. It was like down, very steep up and down.

Ashley:

What's your score?

Jonathan:

I gave it a four you gave it a four. Yeah, I gave it a four. I felt like, even though, I mean, when it was up, it was very up, when it was down, it was very down and the majority of the book was down, but the ups were up.

Ashley:

Made up for it.

Jonathan:

Yeah, I don't know if it made up for it. Yeah, I don't know if it made up for it. Also, I would add, I know we do a lot. We reference a lot of Beauty and the Beast, but I got some legitimate Beauty and the Beast vibes out of this book.

Mari:

Oh yeah.

Jonathan:

But it also like I have questions. I'm probably not there yet. I know we're not there. I'm just going to save those questions.

Ashley:

Stop answering your questions.

Jonathan:

No, no, because it's like I feel like it is Beauty and the Beast, but it this was not my favorite book.

Ashley:

I think you know, Mari, specifically how long it took me to get through my first read of this.

Jonathan:

Blasphemer.

Ashley:

I know, and if it wasn't for Mari's push gentle nudging like yep, yep this is by far the slowest feeling book. It's going to get better. It's going to get better. It's going to get better. So this book was maybe a three for me. I can't remember the last time it took me something like four or five months to finish a book.

Jonathan:

You know what it is. It's the sunk cost fallacy, because let me tell these listeners that if there's a stack of this series on the shelves over here, you're invested in this. No, you're not as invested in this series as you are into the cult of Sarah J Maas. Are there other Sarah J Maas books? Yeah so she also re-series them.

Ashley:

Yeah, that whole shelf is her. Oh, holy shit.

Jonathan:

He's looking at her shelf, yeah that whole shelf is her.

Ashley:

Oh, holy shit, he's looking at her shelf.

Jonathan:

Sarah J Massey's children are going to Ivy League schools. Based on this shelf.

Mari:

I think she's just got one child but yes.

Jonathan:

Oh, wow.

Ashley:

So this book was not my favorite for all the reasons actually that Jonathan said I understood what was happening, I just didn't care. There was too much fluff in the center for me. I was not interested literally until the last third to a quarter of the book.

Jonathan:

That's enough slices.

Ashley:

It was enough slices for me and it kills me because Jonathan is very on board with the characters as we know them now and I desperately need him to read book two.

Mari:

He bought a wig.

Jonathan:

you guys, I got a wig, Guys he bought a Tamlin wig and I'm definitely down. And, Mari, you've seen the Crown right and the mask.

Mari:

I'm dying.

Ashley:

Are you okay? We're killing her.

Jonathan:

We're killing out with the bad air, in with the good air. I've seen CPR on Looney Tunes my entire life Listeners.

Ashley:

All of this said, this is not going to be your favorite book there is spice there is story. There is depth.

Jonathan:

It was too much depth for me, the flat part was very deep.

Ashley:

It's like the mariana trench. Yeah, it was down there, um, but the end made it worth it for me. I enjoyed where the story ended and and how it's progressed since then, so it's a three for me.

Mari:

I would read it again and chip is a real boy again okay, so I um, we basically have done this, this speaking order, in the order of least knowledge and association with it to the most because, like kelly hadn't read any of it, very diffidently, kelly hadn't read any of it. This was his first reading, jonathan, I think you had tried and stopped several times and this is your first reading all the way through. Is that correct, ash? I know you've read some of the entire series, but not the all of the series. Right, I'm about halfway through Akatar yeah like the series itself.

Mari:

Yeah, yeah and I've read the entire series, so I starred. I read Akatar for the first time August of last year, so this is my reread and let me tell you a little story. I have also been trying to read Crescent City, which is her other series. She's got three Sarah J Mastis' three series ACOTAR, throne of Glass and Crescent City. I have been trying to read the first Crescent City book for nine and a half months. A whole baby.

Ashley:

Yes, a whole child A whole gestation period.

Mari:

Yes, a whole person and the similarities, like that book is so slow and there's so much, and then at the end it finally comes together and you're like, oh, pull on my heartstrings. So I'm just going to say this is I think this is just what Sarah J Maas does. She tends to twist and or rip your heart out or get it, get her hooks into you, or something in the very last part of her books, something in the very last part of her books. I will say that I really, really enjoyed the Akatar series as a whole. I've enjoyed it. Akatar itself, the Akatar book one, is the weakest of the link, which is what I tell everyone. I feel like it is absolutely worth it in order to enjoy the rest of the series, which I very much enjoy and I would recommend to anyone who listens to this podcast.

Mari:

I will say that, going back you know, rereading it now and going back thinking back to when I read it the first time. I remember reading it because I was like what is everyone talking about this book? I guess I'm going to read it. Yeah, there's no hype talking about this book. I guess I'm going to read it. Yeah, there's no hype. Yeah, everyone talks about Agatar. I guess I'm going to read it, whatever.

Mari:

And I had the hardest time getting through it. I was just like what is everyone talking about? What are they smoking Like? Am I even reading the right book? It was so like you know, you get to that middle of the book. It is so slow, it is so sluggish, it's like you're in some sort of a hallucination dream or something. It's just, it's very, very slow.

Mari:

Once you've read the series, you know that there's a lot that happens. That has to happen that way and it's laying down groundwork for things in the rest of the books. But we're not rating the series, we're rating the first book. So I feel very similar to how I did, in that it was very slow, very hard to get through and then the end very much pulled it together for me and was like, oh, all of it just came together very well.

Mari:

And since I really liked the series a lot and I see how this book had to be the way it had to be the way it was in order for the series to be what it is, this is the base and if this book were different, I don't think the series could be what it is. I'm going to have to give it a four, bordering on four and a half, because I see what it is as a whole and I don't know how to see it any other way. All right, kelly, the spoiler. A half, because I see what it is as a whole and I don't know how to see it any other way.

Kelly:

All right, kelly, the spoiler spoiler spiel okay, dear listeners, from this point forward, we will be discussing spoilers, so consider yourself warned do we want to say anything else in the overall stuff?

Mari:

you know about spoilers before we go into fantasy.

Ashley:

Jonathan, your overall question jon, or are they specific?

Jonathan:

It just feels like it's Beauty and the Beast.

Ashley:

Yeah, it says it On the back of the book Manipulative.

Jonathan:

I didn't read the book with my eyeballs actually how do you turn the?

Mari:

audio around the left goes in the right ear Synopsis. It's a Beauty and the beast retelling. Yeah, absolutely, it is the beauty and the beast retelling officially picking up so that track I feel validated.

Jonathan:

It feels dark though, like manipulative, so I guess my, my biggest question is did tam tam use her?

Ashley:

you'd have to continue reading. I'm not going to continue reading that's not what you told me yesterday.

Jonathan:

We would I I don't want to continue reading the series. I like to. I like to think of my tam tam as very sexy and loving well then, it sounds like you don't want us to answer that question I don't know if that's a podcast question yeah, I mean yeah in order to answer that question, we would have to we'd have to relay information that goes beyond this book.

Ashley:

Well beyond this book. Yeah, we can talk about that. It's fine if you'd like. No, no?

Jonathan:

I want to preserve my thought process on Tamlin.

Ashley:

You're going to end it on a happy note.

Jonathan:

Yeah, I'm happy with Tam Tam right now.

Mari:

Okay, jonathan, you will like the other books, if I can tell you. I, from what I know about you and I mean your wife is telling you, she knows a heck of a lot more than you do, than I do about you, but from what I know about you, you will like the rest of the book.

Jonathan:

Like you, were very honest with your first iteration. She knows a heck of a lot more than you do I mean you're? Alive.

Mari:

Kelly, do you plan to read the rest?

Kelly:

I, I don't know.

Ashley:

I mean, I think reading the rest has to do with the individual, but also like where we want to go with the podcast. Right, because we could spend episodes talking. I think for me, where's the?

Jonathan:

peer pressure for Kelly. Kelly, you got to read this. Apparently we're missing out Kelly.

Ashley:

Well, because you liked it more.

Jonathan:

I mean, yeah, kelly and I liked the same parts of the book. He was just one star off, that's all. Where's the peer pressure him, kelly? I think you should read this whole series.

Kelly:

The biggest problem I had with this book, aside from it being confusing and feeling like it was somewhat disjointed at the beginning, was that you had the very typical the girl dies, whatever girl, has the main character fallen? Has the male, whatever person, fall in love with them? And what happens? Oh, he turns her into a fae. Oh, he turns her into a vampire as well. Oh, he turns her into a queen.

Ashley:

It's not exactly what happened.

Jonathan:

That's what happened.

Ashley:

That's exactly what happened he turned her into a Faye. It's not his love for her, like he didn't turn her into a Faye.

Jonathan:

No, but that's how it ended. He for her that recruited the others to do it.

Mari:

She's not even high Faye, she's just regulation Faye. No, she's high Faye At the end. She says that. She says it at the end. I've been turned into a high Faye. I just read it 30 minutes before we finished.

Jonathan:

I don't doubt it. I just finished listening to it.

Mari:

The first time I read it and then, this time going through, I listened to the dramatized version the first time I read it and then, this time, going through, I listened to the dramatized version.

Jonathan:

I agree with yeah, I agree with mari, because so I had said that to ashley this afternoon. I said, hey, she hi fay now and actually I thought it was no. I thought, and I thought I had heard the same thing that mari's saying is that she was high fave, that she's high, I thought it was no, but I might have. I tell you what I didn't quite grasp the turning into fay, but no, kelly's right Like. Yeah, it's like the end is near. How do we keep her Turner?

Ashley:

Well, she died, she died.

Kelly:

Go ahead, kelly, tell us more I enjoyed the the whole thing of her doing the trials. I mean that was an interesting way of doing things but it also at the same time it way of doing things but it also at the same time it was like how much more can she get in debt to the other guy, lucian, and all that stuff. And then I also thought it was interesting and quite a different way to do the evil stepsisters, evil sisters kind of thing, where her sisters actually turned out to be, or made a change and turned to be, better people than you thought after everything that happened. So that was a nice change from the usual, you know, evil sibling thing that happens in most fantasy stories I mean they're still assholes, but I hear what you're saying I didn't think they were assholes

Mari:

oh my god, it's just a different upbringing.

Jonathan:

It's different. When I no, no, when I first read this book, I was like, oh my god, this is you know.

Mari:

Yeah. I was like, oh my God, one was just a different upbringing. It's different childhoods. No, no. When I first read this book, I was like, oh my God, this is. Yeah. I was like I know it says it's a Beauty and the Beast retelling, but this feels like a bad Cinderella retelling, like these are the horrible sisters and she's, you know, the main character is the only one that ever does anything for anybody else. And I was just like this is so heavy handed for anybody else. And I was just like this is so heavy-handed. Um, yeah, so I do.

Kelly:

I do think that there was definitely more flesh added to the characterizations of the sisters in that middle part, for sure, yeah, I agree like from as soon as she gave the evil lady gave the riddle, like it was obvious what the answer was yes, like I mean she should have immediately said it as soon as she got the riddle out of her mouth okay, wasn't particularly educated.

Ashley:

Here's my thing. Yeah, I didn't mean.

Jonathan:

It's that obvious. I had to write it all down I, I figured it out.

Mari:

But here's the thing again. I thought it was easy but, like farrah, had education up to eight years old. At eight years old she stopped all education and was in a subsistence living. She learned how to hunt. She taught herself how to hunt. She taught herself how to do arrows. She taught herself how to skin things. Think of how young in development an eight-year-old is and how the brain is still forming. That's when she last like she's illiterate. She, you know, she has this vague knowledge of this high life that they had when they were wealthier. But she basically didn't have a childhood.

Ashley:

She went into like having to take care of everybody mode, um, at eight years old and lacking the answer to the riddle for the majority of her life right? Yes, oh my God. Yes, there wasn't exposure or experience to that. There weren't books that he read or TV that she watched, even from afar.

Kelly:

Other than her saying she was hooking up with that boy in the village and she knew it wasn't love, right?

Ashley:

So you know, it's easy to know what love is it's easy to know what something's not and to have experienced what it is there's, it's easy to know when one is being used, and particularly when you're using them so you know farrah does all this stuff because she promised her her mother her dying mother made her promise that she would like take care of her family.

Mari:

Okay, number one Farrah's the youngest. Why would she ask her youngest child to take care of everybody? That was like something that always bothered me the first time I read it. But now, reading it through, I sit there and I wonder if Farrah's mom didn't actually mean that literally she's just like you know how you, you tell a little kid oh take care of your dad. You know, take care of your sibling. You don't really mean for them to be like. You are now the caretaker of this person for the rest of your life.

Ashley:

This is an oath well to a small child. It would be literal, right, do you?

Mari:

think the mom meant it literally, or do you think farrah just took it that way because she was so young?

Ashley:

Did you have a theory on this husband?

Kelly:

I think the mom must have meant it, because obviously it was the right choice.

Mari:

Obviously yes. Oh my God, you're, right, Kelly.

Jonathan:

I feel like Farrah's mother was probably Faye-related, his mother was probably um fey related and, um, she had there was some sort of whether it was some sort of power or or theme. She knew. She was able to tell that her children were different and what each child was capable of, and a result, I guess so, and the trouble I have here, and this is all speculative. I don't. I don't have any foundation for these things except to say that, hey, I'm just guessing, except for, like the older sister, um, didn't, the glamoring didn't really work on her Um, so it tells me that there's something, there's some gene in this family that's kind of bucking that stuff, um, and so I think that mom was like hey, listen, these other two are blown have they're, they're, they're, they're blown up. But you, you still have a chance. I can see in the future that you're going to be the one who has to do this and then ask her.

Ashley:

So I think she meant it literally yeah. I didn't find that important at all.

Mari:

Yeah, it just made me think about it this time.

Kelly:

I don't know, I have two siblings and I'm pretty sure by the time I was eight years old my parents knew I was going to be the most responsible one. But I'm just saying I think that your parents know pretty early on the type of character you're going to be.

Ashley:

I would agree with that.

Mari:

Yeah, I will say to anyone out there and I'm going to put this as a place mark too, ash, for after you read Throne of Glass, I don't want to read Throne of Glass. Anyone who's read Throne of Glass and Akatar there's a theory out there that is very interesting. That involves Farrah's mother. Message us and I will tell you, because I think it's got some potential to it. And, ash, here's a reminder too Once you read Throne of Glass, be like Mari, what was that Akatar tie-in?

Ashley:

Right, yeah, there's a lot of speculation that these three series are intertwined in some way and in a multi, you know, almost like a Marvel multiverse kind of way.

Mari:

With just just talking about the first book, Even like the first two books would help. But yeah, it's a really good series. Okay, so fantasy. What are we giving good series? Okay, so fantasy? What are we giving it for world building, fantasy, etc.

Kelly:

It set up an interesting fantasy world with the whole idea of the Fae kingdoms being divided into these different groups. But then of course we throw in oh there's this other kingdom that's much more powerful. So I don't think it was terrible. It's a lot of what tends to happen when I read books that have Fae in it whether it's romantic or not is that there are no rules for the Fae. It's just kind of an author does whatever they want for the Fae. So if they decide that this Fae character is more powerful or can do this, then that fey character can do that. It's always very whatever and that's fine, but it also makes it annoying. Oh, this fey is more powerful than any creature combined, but somehow somebody managed to trick him. But if he just says this one phrase, then he'll be more powerful than any of the other fey and can kill everyone. So I would say I have to give the fantasy element of just a three okay, jonathan, you're next oh, fantasy fantasy, are we okay?

Jonathan:

so fantasy, fantasy, fantasy, um, so the idea that there's this, um, this dichotomy of lands, uh, separated by a wall, and some like ancient treaty, and there's definitely a disparity between how the two groups of nations kind of live and what they value and what like. So you have one society, it's very everything means something to them, like if you get like a block of wood, it's worth something to you, where the other one is like uh built in abundance but it's missing some of those uh or or struggling to maintain or recall or regain uh, some of the uh more meaningful things, like I don't know their face, like I felt that was a very interesting way to to build it. I also feel like there's an interesting way to to build it. I also feel like there's a plethora of creatures that I that I don't know anything about, but it definitely sent off vibes like I'd like to see some photos, some pictures or images of they exist, yes, of these of these creatures also language?

Jonathan:

I feel that maybe there's language that I'm not. I would like to see their homes, uh, also really dug whatever like nighttime festival. They were having the holiday fuck fest. I'm assuming that's what it was the spring rights yeah yeah, yeah, the bring spring on yeah yeah, yeah, I'll give it a, I'll give it a four for fantasy. We're standing fantasy point zone.

Ashley:

These boys are killing me, mari. I know I hate, I almost hate that this is book one, because I really do think it just gets so much better. The fantasy in this book for me is a four. I think there's so much building although it's limited, right, because we predominantly only see the spring court in this book, and it just gets so much better. So I know that the rest of it's a five, but if I'm looking at just this, because it's just spring court, it's the one festival, like you said.

Ashley:

And then we're, you know, bam under the mountain, I would say it's a four, like you said, and then we're, you know, bam under the mountain, I would say it's a four. You see some magic. You see repercussions of magic, right, the control of it, amarantha's hold on the world and how it's affecting others, high fae, low fae and humans alike. I really enjoyed, you know, reaching out into those other creatures, the Surreal, are you kidding me? I want to be besties with that guy, right, like we all want the Surreal Tico shirts. And I enjoyed the fantasy part of this book probably the most, better than the romance, better than the spice, not because it was new, but because it was well done, even as difficult as it was to get through that valley part of the book, I really did enjoy the fantasy. It's a four for me.

Mari:

Yeah, for me fantasy in this book is a five. I think that there's a fairy world being built, a whole world comparison to the humans. There's a history between the humans and the fairy. The humans were slaves and then they rose up and then some of the fae were fighting with the humans against the other fae. So you have this whole lush history built up. You have all these courts with their own ways of being, their own politics, their own magic. You have in this first book this really interesting curse of the masks. I don't know that I'd read that before in a book, that your whole court is cursed to wear a mask and I thought that was kind of interesting. I fucking love the surreal. If I had been able to squeeze in one more costume for Dragon Con this year, I was going to be the serial for the Sarah J Mass photo shoot, cosplay photo shoot. It was going to be serial but that ending where she goes under the mountain to save those that she loves.

Ashley:

I mean tiny human.

Mari:

Tiny human in the you know land of the Fae that's out to kill her, goes to the most dangerous part that she knows of this land, under the fucking mountain, to save those that she loves. And she has to go through these epic tests, she has to endure this ordeal. I mean, chef's kiss, yeah, I mean, I just, I, all right, so that encapsulate, encapsulate words. That finishes fantasy. Um, uh, romance. What do we think about the romance?

Kelly:

I mean, obviously, since it was a beauty in the beach retelling, you're gonna have the stockholm Syndrome at play, so I don't know. I liked that. She was kind of. She was a lot like Belle in Beauty and the Beast. You know she pushed back a lot against him, which is nice. You know you could see some of the romance trying to build up, but there was also a lot of, you know, play into the. He's a bad boy. She keeps getting warned about. Oh, don't go out there while he's in this state because it won't be the one you know of. He'll just do whatever. He's a bad boy. There was a lot of that vibe to it and that's just really not my jam. I feel like we've read worse. We've read better, better, so I don't think I can really give it more than a three fair, fair uh, for romance, I'm gonna give it a two.

Jonathan:

what it was just the romance started to maybe happen a tiny little bit in the, in the very flat spot of this book, and so it just wasn't enough of it for me to give it an overwhelmingly high review.

Ashley:

I feel like there was a it's a three for me for reasons that I can't fully acknowledge on this podcast. You see some of the foundation. I don't disagree with Kelly's interpretation of it, but I don't think everyone would see it that way in book one. I do think the feelings that she's feeling now are genuine and I think you can love someone without being in love with someone.

Jonathan:

Yeah, like a sister.

Ashley:

No, a partner. So for that, for me, it's a three, I think for me, also similarly tiptoeing.

Mari:

Like Ash, I think that Farrah has an immense amount of love and passion for those that she cares about. She is always about giving of herself and giving herself and sacrificing herself for those she cares about. She did it for her family over and over. She did it for Tamlin and Lucien. She did it for all the humans who didn't even know she was doing it for them. Definitely these romantic ideals of sacrifice for those that you love. She's got a lot of that Because of things that Ash and I know. I would say that I agree with Kelly and I also feel that there's some very nuanced and layered romance in this book, and so for me it's a four, and I would love to have a discussion with anyone who's read beyond this book and we can talk about it more, but that's as deep as.

Mari:

I can go yeah.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Kelly:

And I think that's part of the problem here is when you read a book that's a part of a series, it's hard to rate go back and talk about just that one book if you've read the rest of them. It's like trying to talk about Star Wars A New Hope if you've seen all of them. You can't just talk about the one movie by itself, right?

Mari:

So your knowledge of the rest of the series sort of taints how you interpret and look back on that first book. When I read this the first time, I wasn't terribly impressed with the romance aspect of it. So on that note, yeah, Kelly.

Kelly:

Spice. It was far tamer than other books we've read Far, yes.

Kelly:

For sure. Now, as far as how the quality of it was, I mean, I think the quality of it was pretty good. I think that it wasn't like grotesque or over the top you know ridiculous amounts of spice. Nor did I think it was you Like. I think the spice was well, if anything, I thought there was going to. You know, I thought there was going to be a lot more so, but it was not near as much as what people have made it out to be. You know, it's kind of like. You know, if you've never read anything spicy, you would say that this was a smutty book. As far as the spice goes, I guess I would probably, you know, stick with saying it's like a three or three and a half. I mean it's, it was fine. There was a, you know, moderate amount and it was fairly well put in there. So I don't think there was any real you know, negative thing about it.

Mari:

Jonathan.

Jonathan:

Spice, so I really didn't have a whole bunch of spice for this book at all, even when spice was happening spice was like salt and paprika.

Jonathan:

I would say, though, like the only thing I would add is there's probably a reason that this book took eight years to catch on. Um, because that's how long it took most people to get through the flat spots. Burn, wicked, sick Burn. No, it's not Cajun. I'm going to give it a two and a half. I think that's generous. I want to give it a two, but I feel like a two and a half is probably because there's some retractable claws. That's all I'm saying. That's from Matt. No banging either.

Ashley:

God, you guys are killing me. Um, I I would say it's a three. I agree with the boys. It was. It was underwhelming. There is hype to the book. It's a spicy series. This is not a spicy book. Um, it was polite, it was. It was foundational, I think, even with knowing what we know. In book one, even at some point, jonathan was like I forget what question I asked, but I asked it back to him. I was like do you think that he loved her? And he paused and it was a very long pause, right. So I think the boys are pretty on par. I think it was a three for me. What was there was nice. It wasn't anything life-changing which you will see in later books. Boys, oh yes, um it was.

Ashley:

It was good enough.

Mari:

It's a three for me for me and I'm trying I am trying really hard to remember back and I think this is how I felt about it the first time I read it. I didn't know any of the spoilers going into the series, but I did have this preconceived notion that this was going to be a spicy or smutty book, because everyone talked about it as the oh, that's the face smut series, with a preconceived notion that this was going to be a spicy book and then getting what we got, I remember being like where, where's the spice? Did the spice fall out of my book? You know, like looking under the pages, like where is it Going with my preconceived notions that it was going to be a smutty book, whether it is not, and going with the fact that I never, I never, I don't connect to Tamlin Didn't jive for me and I have enjoyed books before where the main romance situation doesn't jive for me and I still enjoy the book. So there are plenty of things about this that I enjoy, but yeah, so for me the Spice was a two Going on the covers.

Mari:

I know there's two versions of the covers there's the original ones and then there's the ones that we all know now. The original covers were done by Adrian Datish and they're more like what you would think of a traditional fantasy cover, the ones that we see now. If you go to a bookstore and try and get an ACOTAR book, it's the color blocked versions. That was done by Happy Pets Inc. I will not say what I'm going to say because that's not my turn, kelly.

Kelly:

I've only looked at the one cover, and it was the cover that's on the kindle version. I mean, I think it was fine. It's not like it was, you know, a groundbreaking cover. By any means, I don't know that it would have made me pick it up off the shelf. I feel like it's just an average cover, so I guess maybe a three jonathan.

Jonathan:

So I'm going off the color blocked versions, which I uh that I would have picked that book up for the color blocked version alone. I just like it. So a couple of things that will make me pick. If you're an author out there and you're like what's going to get Jonathan to buy my book, I'll tell you right now geometric shapes and color blocking. If you can give me a good, solid color, that's what does it for you. That's what does it for me Interesting? So I'm going to give the book cover a five.

Ashley:

Oh, wow, okay, High praise. I like the original covers far more than the now covers. I know they are coveted. You can't find them unless you're just the lucky person in the Goodwill store. I think the color blocking I think it's interesting. I mean, mean, how often do you see like just a solid ass red book, right and so for?

Kelly:

that I probably would have picked it up.

Ashley:

Is it the most relevant to the story? Is it the most beautiful cover I've ever seen? I feel like that. Both are no. For me, I think it's a three. It's how I feel about the space. It was just it, it was okay, it was there, it was played. I'm not mad at it.

Mari:

I hate these covers. I hate these covers with a passion. I think that they're bright and joyful and they do not, and they're not reflective of the story, in my opinion at all they're not cohesive. They're not cohesive Like you put them on the shelf and it's like a I don't know a post Halloween frenzied kid just threw up on your bookshelf.

Ashley:

I was going to say I get like rainbow vomit.

Mari:

Oh, yes, yes, I, as much as I love this series, I put off buying this series until I found really good slipcovers. And you guys will see, in the picture that you have already seen, if you're listening to this, the picture that I used for the social media stuff for this episode. It's my version of xr and they're all beautiful dark slipcovers that I have on them. I, it's a one, it's a one. I hate them. Hate them, load them. I think I was being polite, I don't loathe them, but I don don't love them.

Ashley:

And I only bought them because you gave me the first two books.

Mari:

I got you hooked on your dealer.

Ashley:

Yeah, I'm your dealer, aren't I? Nine times out of ten, that's a yes.

Mari:

Yo, you got any more of that romanticity over there. You got any more of that Sarah J Maas.

Ashley:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mari:

What you got next? Getting a little itchy.

Kelly:

Do we think it's a kissing book?

Jonathan:

yeah, sorry, it wasn't my turn, and I gotta go yeah, it's a kissing book. Yeah, I popped this thing through the calculator and it gave me it popped out a 39 success rate. Am I reading smart? It's mildly dirty I'm gonna expanded I, yeah, I've expanded.

Jonathan:

There's been some expansion to the calculator over the past few weeks. It's growing. It's a grower, not a shower. Ashley, she's shaking her head at me. Um, okay, is it a kissing book? No, I didn't it. Just, it didn't even hit 51. I could be on the fence is it my turn again?

Ashley:

yeah, it's a kissing book because, ultimately, if pharah hadn't been wrapped into this whole situation, they all, everything would have gone to shit. Everything would have gone to shit. She wouldn't have known that there was a problem in into the capacity that it was, she wouldn't have gone under the mountain. Amarantha would have continued her control over parithia. Everything would have just catastrophically combusted.

Jonathan:

How much kissing was there?

Ashley:

It's a kissing book. I need more kissing.

Jonathan:

No, no, no, it's a kissing book.

Kelly:

I need kisses not kiss.

Ashley:

It's a kissing book in that if Pharaoh was removed from the story, the world would not have been saved for the time being. I agree with ash. I agree with ash, we know more than you do. Yeah, but with in, but just for this book. If feyre hadn't been beauty and the beast, right then it, there wouldn't have been progression and the takedown of amarantha, and that is key to this book.

Mari:

Absolutely, I agree. It's a Romanesie book. If Farrah had not been willing to die for love, die for those that she loved, it would have been a totally different story. She would have gone under the mountain. Farrah went under the mountain for love. Farrah killed for love. Farrah died for love. Yeah, absolutely Romanesie we have spoken yes mark it in the archives anything else about the book anybody else wants to say. I will say that everyone, um, oh no, no, seriously, think about giving this I have a point.

Ashley:

I have a point no no, no, I have a point, I have a point, I have a point.

Jonathan:

She's got her hand. Just so you know, Mara, she's got her hand in the air going stop.

Ashley:

In case you didn't see it Mara it's there. No, no, no. I have a point, and this is how did you?

Jonathan:

know that she was in love and do you remember the answer?

Ashley:

that you gave me. You said it was one line. She gave one line.

Jonathan:

It was one line.

Ashley:

Mari, you're going to appreciate this if he remembers, if I remember, do you?

Jonathan:

remember. Oh, my God, I can't remember, but it's something. I'm sure it was something important to remember, yeah.

Ashley:

But it was sensitive so I buried like sensitive. It's going to be really relevant to the questions that you're going to have for us offline. His answer to me was because she told she told re sand that she knew she loved Tamlin because Tamlin didn't hold her captive, she was never his.

Jonathan:

That's what it is she. No, it's not because she didn't hold him captive, it's because she said he never treated me like a captive. Hold on to that feeling.

Kelly:

Holding on to it. Tam Tam was like what do you want? You?

Jonathan:

want paint. Hold on to it. You want paint? Here's some paint. Wrap it up, Mari. Here's some canvas art.

Mari:

I made some point. Wrap it up. Okay, I will read the sequel at least, and give that a shot before you have a full opinion of the series. And I would say that, if anyone is thinking about even if you're not a big audiobook person the dramatized version on Audible which is why I ended up reading of this, not just the audiobook the dramatized version that had the multiple voices and the sound effects very well done, that's what I listened to and I very much enjoyed it.

Mari:

Thanks to listening to Of Swords and Soul M soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate, review and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us. Follow us on Instagram at of swords and soulmates, or join our Facebook page of swords and soulmates, or check out our website of swords and soulmatescom. We're also available on YouTube and Tik TOK with the same username. If you'd like to offer a suggestion for a future rapid fire question, reach out to us on you know, anything we've talked about, anything you agree with, anything you disagree with, et cetera. You may reach out to us on the options I've already said and if you'd like to read along with us as we prepare for a new episode. You can follow us on Goodreads at Of Swords and Soulmates. We hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode when we read and review A Dowry of Blood by ST Gibson. Bye you.

People on this episode

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Mari

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Ashley

Co-host
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Jonathan

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Kelly

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