Of Swords and Soulmates
Is this a kissing book? Of Swords and Soulmates features two couples (and sometimes more), with varying reading preferences and experiences, as they read, listen, and sometimes watch romantasy stories and discuss plot, fantasy elements, romance, spice, theories, and more. Join us for our non-expert opinions as we discuss, argue, rave, rant, and hopefully entertain. We may just help you find your next reading obsession or at least contribute to that TBR list!
Of Swords and Soulmates
Author Interview: Sebastian Nothwell
What happens when you challenge an author with a rich appreciation for Victorian literature and a penchant for upending societal norms? This week, we're thrilled to welcome Sebastian Nothwell, who recounts his journey to literary acclaim, motivated by sibling rivalry, with his debut novel Mr. Warren's Profession. Sebastian dives into the heart of romanticism and his unique approach to "happy for now" endings, giving us a glimpse into his creative inspirations and the motivating sense of spite that fuels his stories.
E-publishing has revolutionized the literary world, and who better to discuss its impacts than Sebastian, who highlights the pioneering strides of authors like KJ Charles in the realm of gay male romance? We explore the supportive and collaborative spirit within the indie author community, and how tailored marketing strategies have become essential for reaching niche audiences. This episode is a testament to how diverse voices are flourishing in the age of self-publishing, breaking barriers and fostering a sense of shared purpose among writers.
Ever wonder what the Victorian era and queer representation have in common? Sebastian's insight into writing historical fiction offers a fascinating look at the allure of Victorian England and its rich backdrop for storytelling. From his "quilting" method of writing to the chaotic yet inspiring environment he creates in, Sebastian's world is a blend of meticulous research and creative passion. Plus, the significance of indie bookstores for the queer community and the excitement around his upcoming audiobook release are just a few highlights of this episode. Whether you're an aspiring author or a lover of diverse narratives, this conversation is brimming with inspiration and practical advice.
Links from the Show:
- Sebastian Nothwell
Follow us:
Instagram - @ofswordsandsoulmates
Goodreads - http://www.goodreads.com/ofswordsandsoulmates
All right. Today we are getting to interview Sebastian Knopfwell, who we've just had the pleasure of reading his book Oak King, holly King. He's written lots of other books, but it's the only one we've read so far and we are super excited because it is our first time having anybody else on the podcast other than us. So welcome, S sebastian.
Sebastian:Thank you so much for having me.
Mari:S o we've got like a of questions and we'll just kind of go through them. But if there's anything else you want to talk about or anything else that anybody else thinks about or jumps in on, it's completely fine too. Loosey goosey, all good. I love a good deviation. I thought we would start with how you would define romanticism, since that's like our main focus, and whether or not you feel that your book O King, holy King, or any of your other books fall into that
Mari:category
Mari:.
Sebastian:I would define romantasy a as a fantasy novel that fulfills all the prerequisites of a romance, in that the romance cannot be removed from the story without dissolving the plot and it ends in a happy for now, if not a happily ever after. And I would say my historical fantasy books absolutely fall into this category. My historical books not so much, just because there's no fantasy elements. They don't really fulfill the fantasy half of the romanticism makes sense could you tell me more about happy for now?
Jonathan:that's a new term for me. Like I understand, like I can, I got the concept like, but like what's a good example of happy for now?
Sebastian:happy for now would be like if it's a romance between two assassins and at the end of the book like they're still on the run from rival nations or whatever. But you know that they know they love each other and their love for each other is strong and while, like, tomorrow isn't necessarily secured for each other, they still have each other, if that makes sense
Mari:okay, I would read that
Sebastian:If that's the case, I have a book recommendation for you
Sebastian:that sounds good yeah
Mari:what got you into writing?
Sebastian:what got me into writing seriously and like actually finishing books and putting them out, was my sister texted me out of the blue about 10 years ago and said let's write romance novels and become rich and famous. And I was like, okay, sure.
Jonathan:Good plan, good plan All right external goal.
Sebastian:So I wrote my first book, mr warren's profession. I wrote 10 000 words of it and I was like, wow, this is the most I've ever written of any one thing before. So I was like, hey, sister, do you want to read this? And she was like I only read finished books. And I was like, okay, I guess I'm finishing this. So I finished it and I was like, all right, it's an ebook now. Do you want to read it now? And she was like, actually, I only read paperbacks. An ebook now, do you want to read it now? And she was like, actually, I only read paperbacks. I'm like, okay, I'm learning paperback formatting today, I guess. So I made it a paperback and then I handed her the physical book and I was like, okay, now she'll finally read it. And I asked her how she thought of it and she said, yeah, I couldn't really get into it.
Jonathan:Wow, saboteur,
Kelly:what a twist. Right up until then I was like oh, what a great way to motivate a writer.
Sebastian:I mean, she really did.
Mari:I do owe my career to her, but yeah but the real question is did she ever finish writing anything? No ah, so you will always have one up on her, I guess. Yeah, no, who, um, who or what other than your, your sister, peer, pressuring you are some of your biggest influences.
Sebastian:In writing I'm influenced a lot by all of victorian literature. I read to research my first couple books and then beyond that. I'd say my primary motivator is probably spite.
Jonathan:Just because, like that is right up my alley. I do most of my stuff out of spite. Sometimes there's don't do out of spite, like the dishes. You remember that from this morning yeah, bedside table cup for us.
Ashley:The things you do for spite, though, are impressive as well.
Kelly:listened with you, you were talking about how you were motivated a lot by trying to make oppressors uncomfortable.
Sebastian:Ah yes, Comfort the oppressed and discomfort the oppressor, yeah.
Kelly:Right.
Sebastian:Yes, I love that. Not my words, but I do live by them.
Jonathan:I can make by them. I can make people uncomfortable. It's one of my favorite games, but despite more hate or spite more like revenge or like a need, a need to prove, you know, like I think at one point I didn't get hired with a specific company and I was like you know what I'm going to show these guys? And then I ended up climbing the ranks with their sons, the ceo sons enterprise.
Sebastian:Remember that, I remember. For me, the spite is more seeing a story that didn't go the way I expected, or being told that people like me have no place in certain stories and being like, okay, bet, we'll see how this goes for you I like that.
Jonathan:I like that challenge.
Mari:I'll show you kind of spite? Yeah, I like that.
Jonathan:Yeah.
Mari:I do that a lot as well.
Jonathan:That brings up like a great place. So, like I'm sure, like you have, you're writing queer romance right? So there's gotta be a time when mainstream market rivals are like, there's this application of pressure to perform with your peers. I guess, who are your peers and and how do you approach? How do you approach that? Because what actually have I want to say?
Ashley:I'm not sure I'm equally trying to dig it out of you. I'm not sure where you're going like if are you talking about?
Jonathan:like the pressures of publications or yeah, I like normalizing queer romance in a, in a market that's littered with like what's the, what's the stereotype, soccer moms, and like like the akatar thesis collection yeah what's what's heteronormative?
Sebastian:it is the cultural expectation that everyone will be straight.
Jonathan:Yeah, okay, all right so okay yeah. So what do you? What do you do, like, how do you fight for that space?
Sebastian:I feel like throughout history, queer people have kind of carved out our own space in society and it's like that.
Sebastian:A lot in publishing I will say like traditional publishing has only very recently come around to the idea that queer stories are worth telling, mostly because indie authors have proved that these stories are worth telling.
Sebastian:Mostly because indie authors have proved that these stories are marketable and do have an audience that's hungry for them. But, like, only within the last five years you really see that coming out of traditional publishing. So in the indie author space it's less like you're fighting against other authors and more that authors are all kind of working together to uplift each other. Okay, because, like we don't have a publisher and also because we're not going through like agents and editors, like we're not all competing for a very small pool, we're all working together to create a larger pool that fits all of us in it and allows us to connect with readers directly, because, like, readers don't really have an upper limit for how many authors they'll read, like that's, the idea that there's only a limited pie for everyone to get a slice of is not really true, right as far as books are concerned yeah, I'm pretty sure it's legal to have more than one right I'm.
Kelly:I think e-publishing has helped change that mindset absolutely 15, 20 years ago, even there were only a few publishers and there was a limit to how much money they were going to invest in authors and how many books they were going to publish a year and stuff like that. So e-books and self-publishing have really changed that dynamic, I think, and helped a lot of these voices get heard and get a space that wouldn't have 10 or 15 years ago.
Sebastian:Absolutely yes, and it's funny because, like you asked me who my peers were and it feels like arrogant to name anyone specifically. But I will say that the author, kj Charles, really kind of paved the way in terms of proving that gay male romance had a market, because she had worked in publishing and in the early 2010s she was approached by the publisher she was working for because they're like hey, we've heard that you write stuff, give us one of your novels and we'll see if we'll print it. And she gave them a manuscript and they were like, oh, we don't, like there's no market for gay stuff. And she was like, oh, okay, to Amazon I go. And she kind of single handedly proved that, yes, readers were actually extremely hungry for historical romanticism featuring gay characters nice, nice.
Jonathan:And for clarity when I say like rival somebody who is not in opposition of but helps advance, right, so not, uh, okay, so this is like I look at competition and rival. Competition and rivalry differently. Competition is something that prevents you from getting from point A to point B, right, so competition between myself and this car drive, the end of this car drive, is like a flat tire, blown engine, something like that. But a rival would just be somebody else sharing the highway with. They can be, you can be friends with people like I get.
Jonathan:I raced against kelly a whole bunch I guess it's just difficult because, like with the idea of a rivalry, the implication to me is that there can be only one winner, whereas, like, seeing other indie authors do cool new and exciting stuff and achieve like milestones and goals is like inspiring for me and I do think like, oh, I want to do that. But the solution to that is to go to that author directly and say like, hey, if you have a minute, can I ask you some questions on how you did that? And like nine out of 10, they're like oh, here's how I did that. And then I go do that and then I share what I learned from my process with them and then they get to improve their process with my results and it just kind of it's very much a back and forth collaborative effort.
Mari:The better. A better, more inclusive community like a positive community for everybody.
Sebastian:Ideally, yes, yeah.
Jonathan:Sharing is care.
Mari:So when you write, would you say you write when you make your choices and you write, are you writing for a general audience or would you say you're thinking about writing for specifically someone who's into indie or someone who's into queer romance? Like who do you picture your audience to be?
Sebastian:This is always such a tough question Because, like as an indie author, you're doing all your own marketing and the nonstop advice is is always like create your ideal reader and market your book towards them. And I'm like, well, my ideal reader is just me. So I guess I'm writing for the hypothetical freaks like me and, to my great surprise, these people turned out to actually exist so it works I'm writing for a community of people who like the very weird specific choices I make with stories.
Mari:Nice. So what's your writing process like and your writing space? How do you go about doing all that?
Sebastian:The writing space post-pandemic is just my house, unfortunately. I used to enjoy writing in the library and just kind of being in the wider community, but that's no longer a necessarily safe choice these days. Kind of being in the wider community, but that's no longer a necessarily safe choice these days. So a lot of writing in the house and then the process itself is what I call quilting, which is most story ideas occur to me as like just a few core, compelling, high emotion scenes between specific character archetypes, and then I build out from those to create a complete novel where I just write enough connective tissue between those intense scenes to make them make sense logically, ideally. And it's kind of like you know, when you're quilting you find a few really cool pieces of fabric and you're like I would love to incorporate these into a larger framework. So you stitch everything together between them and then you finally have a quilt.
Jonathan:So do you have like a bunch of like scrap paper with like fragments of stories, Like maybe you got an idea? You're driving along you're like, oh, this would be like a really cool magic carpet riding goat, Let me just write that down. And then, like you're driving along, like oh, you get this battle scene pops in your head and then you're like this, like you have an interaction. And then you're like this, like you have an interaction and you get these small little snippets or glimpses of a story and you put them down somewhere whether you speak them out or write them down and then you store them. You're like, what can I do here? I want to take, I want to go from point A to point B. I have these big blocks. I want to fill in the gaps here. What story do I have? What story do I have? Let me just go to my reference file. Is that kind of the process or part?
Sebastian:That is the process, exactly. Yes, my house is filled with scrap paper, just like a treasure trove of scrap paper. The worst is when I know I've written something down and I've remembered that I've written it down and I remember most of it, but I can't find the specific piece of paper I've written it on.
Jonathan:You don't name them. You don't name the papers like it's like, like legit names, like bob thomas, things like that, like I do.
Kelly:Oh, so many questions. Yeah, I know, you gotta simmer down one at a time, one at a time, one at a time.
Jonathan:Let me, let me delete that first one because, like you, have to keep I do you have to keep all your papers where you can see them at all times?
Sebastian:the incredibly chaotic way I do it is I have I try to group the scrap paper by story, so like, okay, these all fit together with this story. I'll put them in this section of the notebook and I'll just kind of shove the pages in there and hope they don't fall out.
Sebastian:That strategy has not always worked for me because of gravity, but I can see that so it's a lot of going through old notebooks, finding all the scraps of paper and like flipping through different chunks of different stories until I find the correct scrap of paper that I was thinking of. And recently I had to rewrite the entire ending of a book because I couldn't find the scraps of paper that I had written originally but it worked.
Ashley:Perspective that was like when you lost the password to that spreadsheet
Jonathan:I did lose the password to a spreadsheet recreate all the in this spreadsheet. Embarrassed that I mean that I was so mad. I was like, don't worry, I'll fix it. And then I had to go recreate the whole thing by EOD. I was like, oh so mad.
Ashley:In my head. It was like a romantic partner who couldn't perform. Like that was his reaction. He was so embarrassed Like he said it to the person. I'm so embarrassed right now. This has never happened before. I swear the glare he's giving me right now, but that's exactly what it was. I'm just I'm bridging the gaps here.
Jonathan:What I usually do is when I password protect worksheets. I typically hide the password in white, so I hide them from myself. Super well, it's not like I have like. It's not like NASA. I got to bring it down. Just give me this. I'm so sorry you got me excited about spreadsheets.
Mari:No, I'm sorry this kanban board of like cutting off excel, cutting off excel. No, we're back on writing.
Jonathan:We're back on writing. So have you thought about the walls, like because you can tape stuff to walls my old apartment.
Sebastian:Right now the apartment I live in has horsehair plaster walls, so like tacking stuff up has not gone well. But previous apartment, good old-fashioned drywall and there was a full wall that was just scraps of paper tacked to the wall. Yes, it was very like conspiracy board, a little concerning to the untrained eye, but I knew exactly where every story was on that wall and then I had to pack them up and move and I think that's where I lost the end to that other story I'm gonna get you a writing wall.
Mari:So how did you come up with the idea for oak king, holly king, what, what little scrap of paper led to that?
Sebastian:that was. I was doing my standard boredom, wiki hopping, which is just going through wikipedia articles, through like history and mythology, and just clicking those little blue links and everything that looks interesting and opening several hundred tabs at once. And one of those articles happened to be the one for the horned god in wicca and it included the original myth of the oak king and the holly king, which is they have to kill each other to turn the seasons and they're both aspects of the same god and I I was like, okay, this is great, but let me just swap some letters around. And what if, instead of killing each other, they were kissing each other? Is that anything? And so I basically came up with the end of the book before anything else, and I was like, okay, what, what kind of guys do I need to invent to make any of this make sense?
Mari:it worked.
Sebastian:I mean it absolutely worked, yeah I'm so relieved to hear that, because I was never sure it was gonna work out so are any of your characters based on, like people that you know, or past relationships who, like we were talking about?
Mari:oh my god, I I just blanked on the name of the movie. Was it True Night, first Night?
Kelly:Knight's Tale?
Mari:Night's Tale.
Jonathan:the most historically accurate film of all time.
Sebastian:Night's Tale. Yeah, the one where Charles reinvented Queen.
Mari:Yeah, exactly where Charles has got that scene where he's like I will eviscerate you in fiction. I think about that. When I think about this, I'm like it'll be nice to authors if you don't come up in a book
Sebastian:There is kind of like a stock elder sister character who keeps showing up and because my sister is a multifaceted human being who contains multitudes, she's always slightly different book to book, but yeah, there is always kind of like an older sister, mentor character who's helping in a way that other people may or may not perceive as loving.
Jonathan:I gotcha, I gotcha. She's keeping the other characters honest along the journey, like hey, I only read paperback this doesn't make sense.
Mari:Exactly, yeah, I like it. She keeps moving your cheese.
Jonathan:Yes. Is this like your favorite era to write in, or are there other eras that you enjoy?
Sebastian:uh, the victorian era is. It's interesting to me because victoria reigned for such a long time and then because history is not really easily divisible into very clearly delineated sections, like no one wakes up to one day and is like right, victoria is on the throne, we're changing our entire culture overnight. Goodbye, regency forever. Like it, stuff carries on through and then stuff falls by the wayside and so you get what they call the long 19th century, which is like a little bit of the end of the 18th century and a little bit of the beginning of the 20th century, and within that you have a period of of great social and technological change, because at the beginning of the century it's not technically entirely pre-industrial, but functionally it is. You don't have steam power, coal power everywhere, you don't have factories springing up everywhere. It's still a very slow, laid-back agrarian society, and by the end of the 19th century you've got a society that looks shockingly similar to our own today in terms of just like the rapid technological advancement and the social upheaval. So if you like, pick and choose from any point along that timeline you can get a world that still feels familiar and will still have like touchstones for you but will give you a whole new place to play in at the same time.
Sebastian:That said, I did recently just go to 18th century Venice just for a lark for a book and that was fun in that I had to learn a whole lot of new cultural stuff, because Victorian Moors and what have you did not necessarily apply there, but there was still enough Victoriana I. I could carry over, I think I will for the foreseeable future. It's gonna be like a regency victorian edwardian basis for my fantasy books, just because, like at this point, I know the victorian era fairly well so I don't have to do as much initial research if I want to set a story and something based there and so are you like an amalgamation of these, of these eras together h.
Jonathan:You have you gotta be uh vicious in jeopardy, right?
Mari:so like he's committed.
Kelly:Yeah, it is commitment, it's commitment.
Jonathan:What's your research process like? Are you like like smash it all in there, like you know, like put like it's 24, 7, eat, breathe, sleep. This research reach, while researching a period or?
Sebastian:It used to be easier because google didn't suck 10 years ago. So when I put boolean search terms into google it would actually return relevant results, which was great because with the victorian era, most everything they produced is in the public domain, so it's freely available on, like project gutenberg or archiveorg or the magazine the engineer, which is still running. Used to have the entire digitized archive of everything they'd been publishing since the early 19th century, which was absolutely invaluable as a resource. Now my research is more book-based.
Jonathan:Like tangible, like analog books.
Sebastian:Yeah, a lot more analog books. So it's a lot more reliant on libraries and JSTOR and thrift books.
Jonathan:Oh, you're probably a great thrifter.
Ashley:I wish you guys could see the marvel on his face right now, like the ideas that are running through his brain like a hamster on a wheel
Jonathan:.
Mari:I'm scared.
Jonathan:I'm just thinking like I'm in this like flea market space.
Sebastian:I did spend a not inconsiderable amount of time working in antiques. Yes, you got a whole podcast, don't you?
Jonathan:With antiques I want to know about that. Well, we have 20 hours to figure it out. Do you have 20 hours of antique podcasts for me to listen to.
Sebastian:We have over 300 episodes.
Jonathan:You see that Sold. So, we can listen to that. Take that box.
Mari:Kelly is a history major and he very much liked all the history references in Oaking Holly King. That was one of the things that came up in our review.
Kelly:Oh, yeah, for sure oh fantastic.
Sebastian:Finally someone else who cares about the Peasants Revolt yes, I know exactly.
Kelly:I was like oh my god we're talking about the Peasants Revolt and how that may or may not have affected King Richard's reign
Mari:finally, kelly was so excited about that, I was so excited when you mentioned hieronymus bosch, I was so excited. I had to message you about it because I was like, yes, love
Mari:her.
Mari:Yes, what is something you would like to see more of in current storytelling, whether that's books, movies, tv, whatever
Sebastian:at the risk of being very selfish, I would like to see more queer stories front and center, Like I've learned to appreciate a queer side character or a queer virulent, because growing up that's all I had and until like the last five years that was most of what I had. But I would like to see more queer characters front and center, more queer protagonists, more undeniably queer protagonists, not just oh, there are some vibes here, maybe they just don't say and I would like more queer happily ever afters. I would like us to be at the front and center of the story and I would like us to survive to the end of the story and beyond. That would be dope.
Mari:Yes all the happy endings, yes, what is something people often get wrong about you?
Sebastian:Would you believe the pronouns, really the pronouns? Yeah, I kind of get it when people hear me speak before they know anything else about me, because I know how I sound, I am aware, but yeah, so I make an effort to put my pronouns in all my social media bios and in my email signature. And there are people who still do not get it and it's just like, well, I don't know how much more I can do on my end, bro, like at this point, it's on you
Jonathan:\ do you have a favorite victorian word
Sebastian:lately I've been really into refulgence, which I did have a chance to work into Oak King Holly King
Sebastian:.
Jonathan:What does that mean?
Sebastian:It's basically like a big spray of light, like a sunbeam, just like something that's so bright and on the author of the Victorian penny dreadful varney the vampire finds a way to work refulgence into almost every other chapter.
Ashley:Honestly, kind of impressive he is astounded,
Sebastian:Oh king holy king.
Jonathan:So thank you for that. Thank you for that nugget.
Ashley:Oh, jonathan is eagerly awaiting the audio book
Jonathan:I read with my eyes and my and my heart wait, not my ears. Thank you for reminding me.
Mari:I read with my eyes and my heart. Wait, not my eyes, not your eyes.
Jonathan:Thank you for reminding me I read with my ears.
Sebastian:Like many people, I hear with my eyes yeah, but yeah. I am very excited about the audiobook. The work Gary has done on it so far has been incredible, and I'm just so thrilled to finally be able to share it with everybody.
Jonathan:Is that releasing in June? Is that what I read?
Sebastian:Releasing in June. Yes, so soon after this podcast episode comes out, if everything goes according to plan.
Jonathan:Are there specific platforms that it's releasing on, or is it like everywhere?
Sebastian:I will be releasing wide just because, like, I want to maximize accessibility for everyone because, like, not everyone has an audible subscription or can afford one. Like you know, a lot of people are using librofm because that way your audiobook subscription money goes towards keeping independent bookstores open or listening through the livy or the hoopla app for their local library. So, yeah, releasing wide will get everyone the access they need.
Jonathan:What's the do you often visit? Like specialty retailers, like independent bookshops?
Sebastian:I love independent bookshops. That's where all the good books are.
Jonathan:What's the, what's the landscape of that look like? Like? How does that differ from? Like the Barnes and Noble, do you?
Ashley:mean like as a consumer or as the author Does he do events, is that what you're asking?.
Jonathan:I was thinking my business hat was on. So I guess, as an author, what are the biggest challenges for last mile of delivery? Right, and then are you noticing that? Because there's a different feeling when you walk into a small, independent specialty retailer.
Sebastian:Every time I go to a specialty retailer, I always look for the one thing that they do better I mean I find they're definitely more passionate about it because they're usually more invested in acquiring their stock personally. So the books they tend to stock will be, yeah, the big names that keep the bookstore open, but then they will usually specialize in books that either they or their employees or their loyal customer base have asked to put in the shop.
Sebastian:There's also a strong historical connection between the queer community and bookstores because for a long, long time before Barnes Noble kind of flatteneded that market out, there were a lot of specifically queer bookstores that became kind of like community centers for queer folks okay, in a way, you could get more information on yourself and your community, especially pre-internet, because, like, if you're the only queer kid in your family, your grandparents, your parents, your cousins, your siblings they won't necessarily know what to do with you and if you want to find the history of your community, you're going to have to kind of go out and find it for yourself, and queer bookstores were a cool, safe place to do that.
Jonathan:Okay, it's like a quest.
Sebastian:Yeah.
Jonathan:Sorry, Do you have? Do you know, as, as the author yourself, do you have to go in and sell into the specialty retailers on your own?
Sebastian:Yeah, it's a lot of, especially locally, approaching local independent bookstores because a lot of them they want to bring in the local community and they also want to stock books that people want to buy. So they like to do local author events specifically. So it's a lot of going to them and be like, okay, how many miles radius is local to you personally? And also like, do you want to stock queer books specifically? And again, because of that strong connection between the queer community and independent bookstores, Usually the answer is yes, which is very fortunate for me. But yeah, it's a lot of going out in person and building community connections.
Mari:I think you find the best books at independent bookstores, like you get the best recommendations, books that aren't on every other list and aren't what everyone else is talking about, and you just find the coolest books, I love it.
Sebastian:absolutely.
Mari:Yeah, 100 agreed what's one piece of advice you'd like to pass along to others?
Sebastian:like other people in general, or other authors or readers or choice your choice okay, I guess this could be applicable to everybody if you take it on a more general creative level. But I would say, write the weird thing that you're scared no one else likes, because there were so many little details in Oaking Holly King that I almost didn't include because I was afraid they were too much or too strange. But, like, those are the things that make a story unique and worth telling, because otherwise you're just churning out the same schlock as everyone else and at that point why would I pick your book specifically?
Kelly:I mean, I didn't expect oak king holly king to develop a murder mystery arc in the uh later half of the book oh, he's dead like there's no body.
Mari:What?
Sebastian:And, frankly, even if there was a body, they didn't really have a police force. At that point in history there wasn't a whole lot they could do. There's no forensics. Forensics was still a very, very baby science.
Jonathan:That's the sweet spot of crime. You know initially, yeah, like you had like cain and abel and like, oh, one of them didn't come home, the other one messed up bigly and then you get there are only four people on the planet who could have done it yeah, exactly right, what uh? And then, like today, like you got all this forensics and everything's uh documented everywhere, but like then you're right, there wasn't, like that's the time I should have lived. Can you imagine I would have gotten away with?
Sebastian:If I can recommend a fascinating non-fiction look at this phenomenon throughout history. I would recommend the invention of murder by judith flanders, because she goes through the whole 19th century and kind of documents the culture surrounding the birth of modern crime fighting, I guess Just like as the police force was being built and as technology was being developed, and as like even cultural attitudes towards murder as a concept shifted in response. It's a very cool book. I highly recommend.
Jonathan:Was, it was murder, like in at some point, like is that, and then like the cult, the society was like wait a minute.
Sebastian:It's less that murder was in and more like what really counts as murder and what's just a weird accident that we're not going to look into too hard.
Jonathan:Yeah, okay, okay, I like that, I like that.
Ashley:No, no, you don't.
Jonathan:What do you mean?
Kelly:No, it was easy. Back then you just said oh man, one of those four humors was out of alignment. That's what got him
Jonathan:.
Sebastian:Right, we here at Of Swords and Soulmates do not condone murder, murder, bad actually.
Jonathan:Wait a minute. Thank you for having our back it.
Mari:Thank you for having our back. So we have listened to your other podcast so we know that you do a ton of research reading. But when you're not doing your research reading for your writing, are there any favorite books or anything you'd recommend other than one you already have?
Sebastian:I really enjoyed Sword's Point by Ellen Kushner. It is at the risk of spoiling it it my peak example of a satisfying happy for now ending for a queer romanticist and she was kind of really ahead of the curve there because this book came out in the mid to late 80s. I want to say, and it's also very impressive, just the sheer amount of world building by implication that she packs into a very slender volume. It's a very short book but like action packed, real page turner.
Mari:Is there anything else? Anybody else would like to ask before we wrap it up?
Jonathan:Let me just let me check my notes and I'll go to my word wall. Oh, do you have any? Do you have any? Like upcoming projects, like anything, like any irons in the fire. Besides, like we know, the audiobook that's coming out, I'm gonna get to.
Sebastian:I'm gonna get to devour that with my ear holes, but like anything like super excited about like coming out soon um, I do have my ongoing drawerfic serial fiction on my Patreon at patreoncom slash Sebastian Nothwell, where now I've just finished doing the solar fantasy retelling of Mr Warren's Profession and I've moved on to the now-in-progress Victorian Vampire Three-Way, as of yet untitled, and I'm also still coming out with new episodes of Right here Write Queer with the rest of our panel of hosts, so a bunch of queer, cozy fantasy authors on topics relevant to readers and writers alike.
Jonathan:What's queer? This is late in the game. What's queer Cozy, Don't look at me like that.
Kelly:Ashley, two separate words. What's that Two separate words?
Sebastian:Sorry, there was a comma there, but there was a comma there but.
Jonathan:I did go through it very fast, oh okay. I was like okay, I gotcha.
Mari:Although maybe you just invented a genre.
Jonathan:I'm just saying you could, I mean, that could be a thing. I don't even that's.
Sebastian:There was a very funny Reddit post recently where someone asked I've noticed that when I look for cozy fantasy novels there aren't a lot of straight people. Is being queer part of the genre requirements? It's just like no, queer people just tend to really like this kind of story in particular. That's just it's happenstance other than your patreons. Anywhere else people can find you, or you want people to reach out to you at they can find all of my social media and updates on new and ongoing projects at my website, SebastianNothwellcom.
Mari:Anything else anybody wants to add before we are done. Done.
Jonathan:What's your antique podcast too? I feel like if I'm going to listen to it, I better figure it out first.
Sebastian:It is Antiques Freaks.
Jonathan:Oh, that's such a good name too, Dang.
Sebastian:We are the only explicit rated antiques. Podcast. Get the. We are the only explicit rated antiques podcast.
Sebastian:Do you wish the appraisers on Antiques Roadshow could cuss. Check out Antiques.
Jonathan:I love it. I love it.
Kelly:We've all wished that Antiques Roadshow would have Samuel L Jackson as one of its presenters, for an episode. I think it would have boosted their ratings for sure. I could just see it Samuel Jackson yelling at the camera say Baroque again.
Kelly:All right, Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Mari:Absolutely Thank you for having me All right. Thank you so much, sebastian, yeah, for joining us.
Sebastian:Absolutely Thank you for having me All right.
Jonathan:Thank you so much, Sebastian.
Ashley:Yeah, this is great.
Kelly:Yeah, it was a great time.
Jonathan:Thank you so much for spending it with us.
Jonathan:Thank you, sebastian, I appreciate your time.
Sebastian:Thank you for inviting me on. This is a blast
