Of Swords and Soulmates
Is this a kissing book? Of Swords and Soulmates features two couples (and sometimes more), with varying reading preferences and experiences, as they read, listen, and sometimes watch romantasy stories and discuss plot, fantasy elements, romance, spice, theories, and more. Join us for our non-expert opinions as we discuss, argue, rave, rant, and hopefully entertain. We may just help you find your next reading obsession or at least contribute to that TBR list!
Of Swords and Soulmates
"The Liar's Crown": The Power of Bloodlines and Romance
Prepare to indulge your literary senses in a world where romance intertwines with the intrigue of royal fantasy. As we embark on a vibrant discussion, our quartet of book enthusiasts—Mari, Kelly, Ashley, and Jonathan —discuss Abigail Owen's "The Liar's Crown."
We unveil the news on Holly Black's new card game, Enemies and Lovers: The Crown of Elfhame. There is a new stained-glass limited cover of "Crowns of Niaxia." Discover what awaits in Abigail Owen's final installment in the Dominions trilogy, "The Shadows Rule."
Immerse yourself in the tapestry of relationships and mythology that weaves through our featured fantasy book, where the magic of names and power of bloodlines craft a narrative as compelling as the legends that inspired them. We dissect the nuances of royal privilege and the chains of duty, drawing parallels to the Windsors' own saga. From the enigmatic allure of the Shadowraith to the bittersweet plight of Tabra, we delve into the depths of character arcs that promise to unfurl in the sequel, leaving us yearning for more.
Finally, we cap off this episode with a flourish of visual and romantic musings, critiquing the arresting cover art of Elizabeth Turner Stokes for "The Liar's Crown" and musing over the symbolic resonance within. We then shift gears for a humorous homage to Robin Hood's cinematic journey, ranking our favorite portrayals of Maid Marian and her dashing outlaw. Get ready for a hint of nostalgia and a peek at "Three Dark Crowns" by Kendare Blake, all while we encourage you, our dear listeners, to contribute your burning questions for our next rapid round of literary banter.
Links from the News Segment and Show:
- Holly Black card game: Enemies and Lovers: The Crown of Elfhame
- Acrylipicsbookishnook version of Crowns of Nyaxia
- The final book in the Dominions trilogy by Abigail Owens, The Shadows Rule All, will be released on November 12, 2024
- Romantasy Book Convention (Orlando 2024)
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Goodreads - http://www.goodreads.com/ofswordsandsoulmates
Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants. The hosts make no claim to be literary experts and their opinions are exactly that opinions. All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and is being used under the Fair Use Doctrine.
Mari:Hey, hey, and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we discuss romanicy stories. I'm one of your hosts, Mari, and with me I have Kelly hey everyone.
Kelly:it's Kelly and, of course, with us we also have Ashley.
Ashley:Hi, it's Ashley, and we also have Jonathan.
Jonathan:Oh, I got my rear in gear. It's JP, what's good.
Mari:All right. So today we're going to go over a few little discussion news bits and then we're going to review a book for you. The book we're going to be doing is the Liar's Crown, which is part of the Dominions trilogy by Abigail Owen. But before we get into that too much, I wanted to talk a little bit of news and tidbits and things that are happening. First thing I saw was that Holly Black she wrote it's called the Folk of the Air series, but in my head it is always and forever the Cruel Prince series. That's what I always think of it, as the Cruel Prince is the first one. She also wrote the Spiderwick books, which I didn't read. They're for younger readers.
Mari:But she has a card game coming out based off of the Crown of Alfheim, based off of her books. It's called Enemies and Lovers, the Crown of Alfheim, and it's a Kickstarter-based thing where you can join it and help support it so that they can go ahead and produce it. It looks fun. I like games. We have a bunch of board games and card games. I think it's a Kelly, you're going to have to help me. I forget what these are called, like a deception type game.
Kelly:Bluffing game.
Mari:Hey, hey, bluffing.
Kelly:When you said deception, I was thinking of games more like Ultimate Werewolf and stuff like that, Maybe. But bluffing is, I guess, kind of the same but a little bit different.
Mari:Yeah, I'm horrible at bluffing Like if you guys just want me to give you money, convince me to play poker with you, it's so bad. But she, holly Black, described it as so bad. But she, Holly Black, described it as based on the Cruel Prince series, a fast-paced, lushly illustrated card game of strategy, deception and betrayal for two to four players. It looks intriguing.
Jonathan:Sounds fun.
Mari:Yeah, other than that and I cannot say this business's name very well, but Acrylipix Bookish Nook is releasing an official Crowns of Niaxia version like special covers, and they look really cool. They look like stained glass. They're very pretty. They're illustrating like the way they described it. They said our team will be illustrating the art for this project with a stained glass style, making it look like the set was plucked straight from the Moon Palace itself and it's set to release in July. There's nothing like a good trophy book for me.
Ashley:yeah, I think you need that ash. It was a good. I mean to be fair, since it was on kindle and unlimited right, I didn't. I didn't pay for it, so in this would be the first time buying the books, it seems justified, do it?
Kelly:So the Crowns of Naxia those were the books that we talked about before. That were.
Mari:Like vampire books. Yeah, the vampires are broad bent.
Kelly:Right, okay.
Mari:Yeah, I know we were talking about them a lot. Right now there's just a lot of news is coming out because they were independently published and then they got picked up for, like, traditional publishing. So there's kind of a lot of stuff coming out on them. Over these past few months, the last bit of news I had was actually about the Dominions trilogy, the one that we are reviewing today. It's a trilogy, so there are three books. We're reviewing book one, but book three is set to come out this year on November 12th and it's called the Shadows Rule. All.
Jonathan:Ooh interesting, Interesting title choice. Hey, are we planning on like doing all three books this year?
Mari:I mean we can. I will probably read all three.
Kelly:I think that we could read all three. That's fine, but we weren't going to review all three, except for maybe just in passing we could mention it. But the point was to try and read books by the authors that were going to be at the Romanesie Book Convention in October.
Mari:I mean, I think, once we all read them, if we want to, maybe like after November when the third one comes out, we can talk about it. Even if we just mention it, I'm fine with that. At least, I plan to read all three. Ash, were you thinking about reading all three?
Ashley:Yeah, I think as we dive into this episode and you know kind of talk about the events that occurred in book one, it almost makes it hard not to want to know what happened next. So I think for me I'll need the closure eventually. Exactly, I'm actually like perusing her website right now. She has a lot of books coming out this year actually.
Mari:She does yeah.
Ashley:Whatever deal she signed, it was for the whole world. So book three comes out in November. She's got a whole new book coming out in September and then a series that's releasing. There's like two that come out in July and then two in December. So like she's busy. Abigail Owen is-.
Jonathan:She's found her muse.
Ashley:She's getting it done.
Mari:Working hard. So, as Kelly mentioned, we picked this book because we are all going to be going to the fabled fantasy events Romanacy book con in Orlando in October, and so we basically got a list of all the authors that they've announced that are going to be there and we did a number randomly and it came up with this author and that's how we picked this book. Let me read the synopsis. This is the Amazon page synopsis for the book, and then we can get into the details a little bit.
Mari:Everything about my life is a lie.
Mari:As a hidden twin princess, born second, I have only one purpose to sacrifice my life for my sister if death comes for her. I've been living under the guise of a poor, obscure girl of no standing, slipping into the palace and into the role of the true princess when danger is present. Now the queen is dead and the ageless king Aethelon has sent my sister a gift, an eerily familiar gift, and a proposal to wed. I don't trust him, so I do what I was born to do and secretly take her place on the eve of the coronation, which is why, when a figure made of shadow kidnaps the new queen, he gets me by mistake as I try to escape. All the lies start to unravel, and not just my lies. The shadow wraith who took me has secrets of his own. He struggles to contain the shadows. He wields other faces, identities that threaten my very life. Winter is at the walls, darkness is looming and the only way to save my sister and our dominion is to kill Eidolon and the shadow wraith who has stolen my heart.
Jonathan:Ooh, I'm enthralled. Is that the right word? I gotta Google that word now.
Mari:Which one?
Ashley:You did it right kudos.
Mari:I wasn't sure if I pronounced Eidolon right, because in my head, because I didn't listen to the audiobook I read it in my head it was Eidolise. In my head all these characters were named definitely different things that came into my head as I read them. I will say just as a general, non-spoilery overview I was more than 50% through this book and there were still new characters being introduced. There are so many characters.
Jonathan:Agreed, so I did get the audiobook and so I have the pronunciation. But I kind of like hearing. I think that's part of the allure to that side of it. For me is trying to figure out how everyone else is going to say the name. I don't want to say the names until everyone else says the names, because what if I like your versions better?
Mari:Well, I'll tell you that their long name, their full name, full titles of the princess and the twin, tabra Eutheria, the first of Arad. In my head because of Eutheria, she's Euphoria. And then the main character, marineth Evangeline the 12th of Arad is Vaseline. Until it became common for her to like for herself as Maren, I was like, okay, euphoria and Vaseline it is. But I mean, that's a, that's a long standing fantasy. Trope is, whether it's romanacy or fantasy is like fantasy names usually make you have to stop and pay attention. No matter how fast of a reader you are, you're gonna have to stop and really kind of sound that out in your head, you know.
Jonathan:Yeah, yeah it's. It's starting to become more prevalent the more we read the naming convention for these characters is kind of like. It's definitely counter to me. There's no like no, bob, nobody's sitting there's. We're not talking about sarah over here yeah, yeah, they're all I think.
Mari:Maybe vos, voss because his nickname is Voss is probably the one of the common ones and Horace, like those are the two that were like okay, those are names that I think are more I've heard them in other places. Kind of neat, kind of things, you know.
Jonathan:Ashley, are you going to confess that you?
Ashley:made me no, I was not.
Jonathan:All right, all right, okay, I was just checking, I'm going to, I'm going to out you then, since you're not willing to confess. Yeah, ashley made me play the book at speed so that she could learn Is she a handmaiden or is she just a servant, so she could learn the pronunciation for her name. So, without getting too far ahead of ourselves, it was just interesting, she's like I can't sleep till I figure out how to say this name.
Ashley:I mean my brain had very much decided what it was going to call her. I knew instinctively that it was incorrect. So yeah, in my head I knew that that one was not accurate. The others I didn't struggle too too much with. But yeah, the handmaiden, the one that dresses Tabra, preferred one. I guess is safe to say. Her name did not compute for me. My brain was not connecting all of the consonants. I think in my head she was.
Mari:Achilles, but I have no idea how correct that is no very much.
Ashley:That's what I said. Isn't that what I said? I said I'm pretty sure it's Achilles and I think he correct. Finally, he told me what it was and I still don't remember.
Jonathan:Oh, kelly, how did you read, how did you hear the name in your internal monologue?
Kelly:I believe I was thinking Ackles, okay.
Jonathan:All right, I think Kelly's closer Ackles.
Mari:Ackles Okay.
Jonathan:Yeah, that's how they pronounced it. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage because I haven't seen the names spelled, so they just they speak them. So for a while you know the Shadow Wraith I couldn't tell if they were saying the Shadow Wreath or the Shadow Wraith. It was interesting. It's interesting now for me to see it spelled out, and the King's name is definitely interesting as well. I think having those two like the spelling versus the pronunciation like I would have never. I mean, when I saw Shadow Wraith spelled out, I was like, yeah, that makes sense, sounds good to me or looks good to me when I hear with my eyes it looked good to me.
Mari:Yeah.
Kelly:The problem with this book not getting into any of the spoilers is the names of the characters give away a lot. So you had Cain, which immediately made me think of biblical Cain, right? What's the tale of Cain, you know he ended up wandering through the desert after what he did to his brother, right? So you had Cain the desert wanderer. You have Eidolon the big, his brother, right, so you had Cain the desert wanderer. You have Eidolon the big bad guy, right, which is from ancient Greek, is a specter or a phantom. You had the Tabra's handmaiden, ackles, which was going back to Greek mythology again, was the personification of sorrow. So there's a lot of name play in this book where, if you know some mythology, you know or have an idea of what's going to happen to the character.
Mari:The only one I knew from all that was Cain, the story of Cain. I didn't know the story of the other one.
Jonathan:Every time they said Cain's name I was like, oh, cain and Abel, cain and Abel, cain and Abel, cain and Abel. But I didn't get Cain and Abel vibes from him able. But I didn't get like can't able vibes from him. I mean. So, like going into the like the wandering side of things cool, I definitely got. Didn't get like the murderous, where's my sibling? Gotta, gotta like put a stone on his face, kind of vibes. If if that's a vibe you can get. Like, if you got that vibe, if you're sitting next to somebody and you get that vibe, you should probably leave. Yeah, create space, or you know. Only let them have pillows, no rocks for you, sir.
Mari:So, without you know, going into much detail, just general, non-spoilery star rating before we get into the spoiler section. What would you guys give how many stars?
Ashley:Me first, it's a three.
Jonathan:I'm sorry, could you repeat that? Did you you?
Ashley:mispronounced four, it's a three, it's a three. I was. I was entertained. I appreciated the concept of the dominions, right and this I don't want to say simplicity, as in something derogatory, right, like not that she didn't work really hard writing this book, but I appreciated the names of the Dominions being something that I could very easily potentially identify in my brain. I think of myself a little bit as a dumb reader. I'm here for the entertainment. I'm not here to try to figure things out all of the time and try to predict what's coming or what's going to happen in the future. So I felt that the imagery was decent. I had a feel for the places that she was describing. I had a feel for most of the characters. I don't think I stayed up until 3 am reading, but I was excited to read the next chapter. So it was a three for me, kelly.
Kelly:This was, I think, a three. There was some interesting things. Like Ashley said, I appreciated some of the interesting world building thing like the different dominions and all the dominions being separated, which made some interesting stuff for the story. But there was also, I think, a few stumbles, a few cliches that made me kind of like do the whole ugh type thing. That made me kind of like do the whole ugh type thing. But overall I think it was a three. It was an entertaining book that had some problems. Yeah, what about you, mari?
Mari:I think probably three and a half. I was not thrilled by the character development but I did enjoy the world building. I plan to read the next book because I enjoy like I want to know what happens in these dominions and in the world and in the politics and the machinations that are going on, and I'm also interested in the magic system, how all that works. So I'd say 3.5. Jonathan.
Jonathan:Oh man, I like this book. I think this was a four no-transcript feel the environments, the characters, the different personality types, etc. As I engaged with the book, it kind of made me feel like I was getting into it. I liked it. It was a little bit faster paced and I enjoyed that. So, yeah, I would give it a four for sure overall for me.
Mari:All right, kelly, you want to give the spoiler warning.
Kelly:Sure. So I think from this point on, dear listener, we will be going into spoilers. So if you do not want to be spoiled, then you can fast forward this podcast to the end, or stop it and come back later after you have read the book. Or if you don't care about spoilers, then keep on listening.
Mari:All right. So, going into a little more in depth, like for me, like I said, I thought like the magic stuff was kind of cool how it was like physical, potentially physical, based like sand or water or whatever, or like the soul or the mind stuff. That was kind of neat like different kinds of magic, and I am interested in the dominions and what's going on If there's an uprising and all that stuff. But I gotta say, like the character development I think I expected is to be a little bit more about and this may have been just me and my misconceptions, but I think I expected it to be a little bit more about Maren and her sister. And yet all we're ever told that her sister is this beautiful, innocent, wonderful child or whatever. This is Tabra. We don't really know anything that Tabra does. We don't really get a lot of experiences of what Tabra does. And it made me like think about that.
Mari:Maren doesn't get to spend a whole lot of time with Tabra. She doesn't live with her Like she goes in to like get to spend a whole lot of time with tabra. She doesn't live with her like she goes in to like replace her when she has to. I don't feel like they grew up together or had this huge sisterly bond. So it makes me wonder how much of what we're hearing through marin's head that tabra is, how much of that tabra actually is.
Mari:You know, I mean, like I think we're getting a unreliable narrator viewpoint and I don't feel like I got a lot of personality out of a lot of the other people, like the Shadow Wraith, revan or whatever is interesting, like he's got some depth to him, you know, considering that he has some memory loss or whatever. So like he isn't fully fledged, there's a lot of his existence that he doesn't really understand. But the only other character that I thought was kind of developed was and I don't know if I'm saying her name right Zia the blue girl, the one who can't when she opens her mouth. It's like incapacitating to people. I thought she was kind of interesting, but a lot of the other people kind of blended together for me.
Jonathan:Interesting, very interesting. As far as, like character development, I felt like going into it. The story was always going to be about Marin and I really did think that Tabra's role in the book was a placeholder or a misguided target. They pulled the old switcheroo. Revan was like, hey, I got the right one and then turned out to be the wrong one still the right one, which is real cool. And there was some like the sand nymph had that little underhanded move felt like as this story, as this trilogy evolves, it's going to.
Jonathan:I think we're going to go on to a deeper journey, but in through this first book I put tabra into this box of like this she's just along for the ride. She has never really had or known anything other than a princess's life, a guarded, safe, well-cared for life. I can have what I want. And now she's kind of just along. She's manipulated, she's being manipulated right.
Jonathan:As far as the magic liked the the world building I got, I was caught off guard a little bit by the emo boy, but I I like this concept of the amulets and that maybe they're almost like this magic wand that has yet to be. There's hints of that connection throughout the story I guess. Like overall the in that character development side of things. I thought it was well laid out and that they're living up to how like they're put the perception. Everyone has something to contribute to the team as a whole, whether it's marin or or revin or or even kane, right, uh, they all have something to contribute to the goal towards the finish line. Tabris just feels like she's along for the ride. King Edeleon feels like he's grasping at straws. There's bound to be some sort of desperate measure in the future. He's on an island and he's trying to move these chess pieces into play for survival purposes.
Mari:So I don't know Any other spoilery details. You guys want to go into Kelly or Ash?
Kelly:Go ahead, Ashley.
Ashley:For me, the world building was a little bit, it flowed a little bit easier for me than the character building. I don't think I was as disappointed in the lack of the sister relationship. I think it's impactful to realize that separation and then you know, as Jonathan mentioned, the privilege of Tabra's upbringing versus the hardship of Merrin's, and so I think that will speak to them as individuals as the story develops further. I think there's a lot of interesting pieces that, again, we'll see more of as the the story progresses. I think I had a better feel for the world, though, than I did for some of the characters, although, mari, to your point, I want to know more about zaya. If that's how they does that, maybe it's to zaya, but she's the loo for me. Yes, I need to know more I why? Why is she blue? Are there more blue people? Why can't she talk? Is she a mermaid?
Ashley:yeah there were a lot of very unaddressed topics of conversation for young zaya also I thought they addressed that did they?
Kelly:they sort of did. But yeah, I, I actually have read the second book, the next book in the series, and they do address it more in the second book oh, okay, okay, so we're definitely reading yeah.
Kelly:So I felt the fantasy aspect in the world building was interesting to do.
Kelly:Like you know, y'all have said, the dominion aspect was very interesting the different aspects of you know different magic that the people have that they're born with. I've never been a big fan of the idea of people are born with an ability and that there's people who just aren't born with it. That's always. It gives it into that whole like the chosen one type fantasy trope, which annoys me because that sort of takes away from the idea that anyone can be a hero.
Kelly:For me that's always one of the of the greatest tragedies of how Lucas screwed up his own Star Wars universe was by making the midichlorian thing, where you know, in order to be a Jedi you had to have these midichlorians that are part of your genetic makeup or whatever, which takes away the whole idea that anybody could be a Jedi. So I always hate the idea that you were born with some kind of power and you can't be a hero if you're not born with that power type thing. And unfortunately we see that every main character in this book has one of those powers. To me that takes a little bit away from it.
Mari:That's interesting. So I know, kelly, you get tired of like tropes or things that have been done before. For me, I think it's because I like fairy tales and retelling so much I don't mind tropes, Like I don't mind if it's another Beauty and the Beast retelling. You know, I'm okay with that If you can make me be interested in it. It doesn't have to be like the. The concept doesn't have to be interesting if it's well told.
Kelly:When we get into character development. I don't think there was a whole lot of character development, which was, you know it's. There's more in the second book. There's definitely more character growth and development in the next book, but this book was sort of hampered. But again it gets back to.
Kelly:The author did a lot of playing with names, like if you knew anything about these names and what they could signify. You had a pretty good idea of where this character was going to go. Like I said earlier in the spoiler-free section, you had Tabra's love Eccles being from Greek mythology, the personification of sorrow. She can't have the person that she loves, right, because the person she loves is a princess, so she's living a life of sorrow, essentially right. You had Edeleon, the big bad guy, who from Greek mythology, is a shade or phantom and we find out. That's exactly kind of what he is. So you kind of knew that we had. You know, we talked about the idea of Cain and we talked about even Tabra's name is classically associated with a gazelle. And what is a gazelle? Food for the lion, right? And then even Mirren her name kind of comes from, again the variant of Latin, talking about sorrow and bitterness, and she's sorrowful and bitter about being the spare. I mean it's a direct correlation to the whole idea of the second prince.
Jonathan:The second princess is the spare right yeah it's just interesting that you know if you had some interesting insight into the characters just based on their name yeah, and I think that she it felt like she had some help along the way, like maybe she had an advantage, so some things kind of strayed from the tradition. So on the day of their birth, the Sand Nymph was like, hey, hold on, pump the brakes, let me move over here and flip the script on good old King Adelon, right? And then Oma was like, hey, you know what? I know I have to go away, I have to expire, I can't be seen or heard from again once Nana kicked the bucket.
Jonathan:So what does she do? She plants the amulet in the pocket of Maren. She gives her this advantage, right. Maren's character has an opportunity to evolve much more rapidly and gives her the ability to break free of that. I'm the spare mentality, especially when she has so many attributes and skills that Tabard doesn't have. Tabard doesn't know freedom. She's always been a prisoner to the throne. I think they mentioned that at one point where the only time she's ever really to impress her sister when she talks is when she talks about her escapes to you know wherever, to the to the desert or wherever she's going yeah.
Jonathan:So I think there's advantages to being Marin.
Kelly:Yeah, I mean, I think it's a classic approach.
Kelly:You know the two princesses, the two, you know they lead different lives because of their position in the chain of royalty type thing. It's like getting off on a little bit of a tangent of like Prince Harry and Prince William right, they don't have a good relationship obviously, and I think some of that comes from Harry has always been treated as the spare, so he's bitter. Maybe he's bitter about that, but at the same time William envies Harry's freedom, because William is expected to do this as the Harrah parent. He can't have a life of his own choosing. He couldn't choose to go and marry some woman that was non-royalty, like his brother did. So it goes both ways. Mirren is envious of her sister not having to live a life of seclusion, but I'm sure Tabra was envious of the freedom that Mirren had, and that's a very classic story, right? The idea of the two siblings that are both royalty, even if they're not one's hidden away, is that one has freedom and one doesn't, because the one that's the heir apparent is expected to do specific things.
Ashley:The grass is always greener.
Jonathan:What do we say, ashley, because there's more on that side I think, both sides have their, have their struggle, but really I think the only one of the two that found love at an early age was tabra. I believe that relationship with oculus is reciprocal. They touch on it slightly, but at one point I think the giveaway for me was when she was braiding her hair and she says you're not my Tabra, you know that's like Possessive.
Kelly:That's possession. Well, it's very intimate, right? So it gives you a clue of how intimate their relationship is. But she can't ever have that relationship in public, right? Because she's going to be the queen. So I think she could have that relationship in public, right?
Jonathan:Because she's going to be the queen, so I think she could have that relationship in public, even if she's the queen. I think she's being manipulated by that amulet. That's pure speculation they don't like lead into that Right.
Kelly:We get to the end and see that something bad has obviously happened to Tabra, right.
Mari:I think there's a lot more to Tabra than we know, like I don't think we get to know tabra at all there's a lot more in the second book and I don't want to spoil it yeah, because I don't think marin knew tabra, to be honest no yeah, that was the vibe I got was like we get who marin thinks tabra is, but it's a very like surface and idealized.
Jonathan:Oh, yeah, she's supposed to be cowering in fear, she's supposed to concede throughout her kidnapping and they're all surprised by quote unquote Tabra as their relationship evolves. And, yeah, I think you're right. I don't know that Maren truly knows Tabra or that Tabra truly knows Maren. It really did feel like the. You know, my dad's coming to pick me up for his visitation weekend every other weekend. Yeah, go to the castle and sit in your windowless room In your closet Occasionally, and you can't be seen anywhere with your sister, right? What kind of relationship is that?
Mari:Yeah, like, like. Did they ever actually get to spend any real time together? You wonder, like, how, where and how would they have gotten to know each other?
Kelly:I think it's alluded to maybe it is more in the second book, but it talks a lot about how they, especially when they were younger, they spent a lot of time together when they were being taught stuff together about you know, different ways of royalty and blah, blah blah. So it's not like they only saw each other once every six months or something there's. There's some establishment that they spent more time together than you think okay, all right.
Mari:So fantasy how many swords would we give it? Since we had you last, jonathan, let's have you first. How many swords are you giving the fantasy element?
Jonathan:Listen, I really like this book. I think that, fantasy-wise, you know, I'm engaged Fucking five, wow, five sharp sticks, all right.
Ashley:Ash Fantasy. I think it was a four. I think we explored some magic that's maybe not as common as you know what's maybe traditional or mainstream, if those are even the words you could use for magic. I thought the concepts to happen regularly, every other generation, and to always be magical. I think it was really cool to see that Kelly touched on this, that it was a dislike in his column, but I thought it was cool to see that there were some magical people and some non-magical people. You know, not everyone has the same talents or the same gifts, right, we are all individuals, and so I think Jonathan and I might've talked something about this to some effect once upon a time, and magical abilities are possibly like a mutation, right, so like X-Men and the things that they can do. So I liked the fantasy that we got to see so far and I'm excited to see where it's going. So it's a four for me.
Mari:Yeah, I would say for me, fantasy is also a four. I like the magic system. I want to know more about it. I liked the different dominions and how they were fleshed out. So I think one problem that a lot of fantasy books and this happens with a lot of sci-fi books too have is if you introduce another culture, like if it's aliens on a planet or if it's this fantasy world you're creating you get into a lot of like monocultures where everyone is this one religion, everyone dresses in this one style or feels this one way about whatever. I think she did a good job of having some variety of the different people from the different dominions, giving them some personality, which made it feel pretty fleshed out. So it would be 4.6 for me, kelly.
Kelly:I want to say a 4, but again, I also have a little bit of influence having read the other book. So I think if I was just saying on this book alone, I would be more towards a three and a half. But there's definitely a lot more expansion and explanation behind a lot of the fantasy elements into the second book and I think that helps flesh it out a little bit. More fantasy elements into the second book, and I think that helps flesh it out a little bit more.
Kelly:What I did like was in the first book the author did make a point to talk about language and dialect. Which is something that a lot of fantasy and sci-fi authors never talk about is language dialect issues. So I think that was a very good point that the author threw in there about how the wandering desert people had a dialect that was unrecognizable from you know a lot of other dialects in the same kingdom, so I thought that was interesting. It's always nice to see those kind of little details that are thought about. But the big problem I had again was the whole idea of some people being born with and it's not that I object to people being born with certain talents or gifts, it's that the talent or gift is passed down from person to person.
Mari:Romance. How many hearts are we given this?
Kelly:Why don't you start, Maureen?
Mari:To be honest, initially I was like maybe one heart, but then I bumped it up to two. So let me tell you my thought process. Initially I was thinking one heart because I don't feel like there's much of a romantic connection, and once again I think it's just, it's not my, it's a preference thing, it's not my kind of romance that I like. It's kind of Romeo and Juliet, it's insta-love-y, it's really. It's more lust than anything. But it's made out to be this romance, great love kind of thing. Because it felt very fast. It felt like you. Basically he kidnapped her what is it? Stockholm syndrome-ed her into liking him. But then I thought about, I think, multiple times throughout the book they basically sacrificed themselves for each other. Those were acts of love. So that's why I'm bumping it up to two.
Ashley:Ash, it's a two. It felt very shy and high school-y love to me, you know, like there was the one bed trope in the log, right when they have to spend the night. I wasn't excited when their hands touched. I didn't feel giggling right that giggle excitement for on their behalf, just yet I think it was. It started out as a slow burn. Um, they reached a peak. I didn't feel fireworks in this one. So it's, I think that it's two hearts for me, okay, kelly yeah, I'm go with the two.
Kelly:I feel like at first it was like okay, here we come with Stockholm Syndrome, because that certainly felt like the route it was taking and it kind of did for a bit right. It felt like the Stockholm Syndrome romance effect and very quickly went into her, going head over heels over him, and once again it felt like it was giving into the stereotype trope of he's the bad boy, you know, he's the shadow master, dark.
Mari:Shadow daddy, Shadow daddy just like in Lea Bardugo's works, Grishaverse yeah.
Kelly:In the Grishaverse where everyone goes gaga over the bad guy, the shadow bad guy. In that series I felt the romance really wasn't that great. I think it gets better in the second book, though I think there's a little bit more of the more defining of the romance. I did feel like some of it felt forced in the romance in this book for sure, jonathan and kind of here's why, like so I, I get like the stockholm syndrome vibes.
Jonathan:But from the moment she laid eyes on him she was like dang, this dude looks good and his voice it's like this silky iron I forget the word velvety iron or something yeah you know, boom, I thought you know she.
Jonathan:It was love at first sight, which I'm not opposed to. I mean, I I did fall in love with Ashley when I first saw her, so I can definitely relate. Did I get any? I hope I got some points for that one and then, kind of like she had her moments, like she was all set to escape and it just he at the same time.
Jonathan:He wasn't kidnapping her to impose on her, he was kidnapping her. He made the deal. He's like listen, I can't let him take you. I, I need to show you this place, these people, let me show you these people and then you go do whatever you want. It had that, you know, how else was he gonna? He wasn't gonna get her there on a diplomatic mission. He was going to have to be like hey, I'm taking you. It's a smash and grab. He didn't try anything with her. Instead, he demonstrated repeatedly elements of protection over her and made sure that, while she was in his charge as he was just the transportation, the means of transportation from point A to point B that he was able to keep her alive, keep her healthy, keep her protected. And then, even at the point where he became weakened. She was like you know what. I should return this favor.
Jonathan:I think that even though it evolved over the period of like four or five days, this book is pretty much like a week right. So even though it evolved rapidly, it's still quite possible and plausible that you could find someone and develop some sort of romantic connection. And yes, it maybe started out haphazardly and maybe it wasn't a consensual encounter. It wasn't a sexual encounter at first, but maybe it wasn't. The relationship at some point became consensual. When there was a balance of power on something was a day two or day three, that balance of power shifted, came into play yeah, when she helped him.
Mari:Yeah, because, like initially I actually I highlighted this they were like he had kidnapped her. This is 16 into the book. He says killing you is not on the agenda. Yet he snarls because I need you, but you try anything like that again and I'll never release you from the shadow. Got it so and he's he did a lot of threatening yeah, he's truly a powerful being.
Jonathan:I think it's safe to say that we got very much Horcrux vibes from the deal, especially when he had an opportunity to save her life. Horcrux vibes from him, from the Shattery. Their lives then became intertwined and idea that separation is possible. Now, man, I don't know. I think that in the book also alluded to the idea that if you're bonded as a couple, then there's some sort of some sense of deeper bond or or ground you're grounded to each other. I forget the term they used.
Mari:They were going to fake it, yeah.
Ashley:Maybe it was bond mates.
Jonathan:I don't know if they said what happens if you're like, if you were a bond, because they were like. Though, if we tell them we're bond mates and we give them the impression they won't separate us and I'll be able to protect you, kind of thing. So there must be some sort of power given to those who are bond mates or some sort of like. If you, if you separate bondmates, will they die? And if they die, are you liable for that?
Mari:Or maybe it's just like a cultural faux pas, you know like, maybe it's just a thing of the culture like you don't separate.
Kelly:So they go into that in the second book. They explain the bondmates more thoroughly in the second book, bondmates more thoroughly in the second book. Okay, and so, yeah, it's. It's both a cultural faux pas and also being separated from a bondmate can actually cause physical harm okay, has anyone not gone first yet?
Jonathan:actually did you give your romance measurement?
Ashley:I did, you just weren't paying attention.
Jonathan:I pay attention to you all the time. It's hard for me to keep you out of my mind. It's exhausting the way you run through my mind all day.
Ashley:Oh no, I know it's keeping me in your ears that I can't seem to nail down there.
Kelly:No.
Ashley:I did. I gave romance. Romance was two for me.
Mari:All right, spice, I don't mind starting because I wrote this thought and I don't know whether to put it under romance or spice, but I ended up writing it under my little spice notes and I was like, okay, so an 18 year old leaves home for the first time, shags the first boyfriend she has in a matter of days, and that's the spice, like it was it felt. That's right to me. It felt lusty, not romancey, which is fine, but like less not love it was. You know, it wasn't explicit, like the spice stuff wasn't explicit, but it wasn't exactly closed door either. So I think for me I put like a two.
Kelly:I think I would go with probably a two. I agree it was kind of lusty. I felt it was definitely like the, you know 18 year old bangs, the first boyfriend she has vibes. There was a little bit of, I guess, some attempt to be descriptive, you know, talking about how he handles her gently, like she's one of the glass flowers that he doesn't want to shatter and all that stuff. But what I what amused me the most was and I'm not sure how this equates to the page number but she actually says at one point it wasn't that good of a kiss, which, like all I could think of, was what we talked about the last episode. It was channeling eevee from the mummy. It was, for heaven's sakes, girl. That wasn't that good of a kiss. Trying to convince herself that it wasn't yeah which I thought was amusing absolutely jonathan.
Kelly:Oh uh, spice your favorite subject one that?
Jonathan:yeah, uh-huh, that fire chicken thing. That was what did they? The horror hawk, what did what? Was she called the one that was like getting off on eating when they were stuck in that tree, like that was the first element of spice. Like she was like the harpy maxing as she yeah yeah yeah, she was like climaxing as she. Yeah, yeah, she was like climaxing as she was eating whatever animal right.
Mari:So I was like did the audio book have sound effects?
Jonathan:It did not go into that.
Jonathan:She was like you could hear like her thoughts, where she was like, yeah, okay, man, I'm familiar with a woman making it this far into their evening because of where I grew up, but like this is like a whole nother level, like come on, finish up, get out, you know, yeah, that kind of thing. So I was like dang, that's, it's interesting. And then, and then there was like dry spot, right. So like this whole all this stuff was going on. There were some undertones, like he was, he was close to me, I could feel him and you know, like you knew it was going to get there. But then when it got there, and when it got there, they have these lightning sex portals on their body, like if their scars touch, like weird shit happen. Come on, what kind of sex is that? That's like off the charts.
Ashley:Like light show sex yeah.
Jonathan:That's what I'm saying, like I mean saying, like I like that's what I envision, like you know, like sparks literally flying because their skin bumped in the right place, like pow, and then all of a sudden, they can feel each other's feeling yeah, right, yeah, I was like hot dog that's the way.
Jonathan:Actually don't get any ideas. I don't have any way to do that like we can light a candle. That's as close as you're gonna get. But like, the imagery that I got in my mind was that this, the scars were maybe like on on like a wrist or something like that, and it like it's this like bluish gray or like this like purpley kind of scar. It's like fresh but not. It hasn't been there for years and they just their pathways to for a transfer of power, a transfer of energy, a transfer of passion. And I was just like, yeah, they need to get a little bit more into that.
Jonathan:Some of that is, yeah, okay, maybe the kiss wasn't that great, but there's no way that he could be fully present in that moment to have some real spice. He's sexing her up with one arm behind his back. Mentally. He's got to fight back the other layers, right, contain those evil, the evil Adelons. Fight back the other layers, right, contain those evil, the evil Edelons. At the same time, he's got to be like let me show you, let me put my poems in you, so Spice, I'm going to give it 3.5 because of the bird. The bird is that half point.
Ashley:The bird was the half point Wow.
Jonathan:You don't want to know more about that bird. You're into Lou the goat, but you don't want to know more about the howlin harpy. You don't want to know about that the climaxing canary. You don't want to know about that I mean.
Ashley:I think I think the climaxing canary would have made for really great like tv, like movie. Do I want to know more about it in my book?
Jonathan:probably not what does this bird look like? I wish they would okay. So if it's like a, there's like a harpy.
Mari:I want to say it's called a harpy eagle. That's a real thing. It's just a large bird, but there's also like harpies in mythology and I just sent a picture. It's basically a mix between, like a, a person with wings and bird legs.
Jonathan:Whoa Mari's sending me porn chickens now.
Mari:No, that's what a heartbeat is.
Ashley:Oh okay.
Mari:So, moving on, then the last little bit would be the cover. What did you guys think about the cover? I have a feeling. What's your feeling? I have feelings.
Ashley:I have feelings because I Googled it and I think there was actually what you probably saw with the actual floral and the crown and the skull is like a newer version of it.
Kelly:And.
Ashley:I found what I think was the original, perhaps.
Kelly:Oh my gosh, is this another five covers issue.
Ashley:Yeah, this seems to be our rabbit hole. This seems to be our rabbit hole, but when I click on it it leads to Barnes Noble, but then Barnes Noble pops up with the new one. So I was trying to find something that I could share with you guys, because the one that's on my Google search is blurry. But I think it's okay. I don't love it or dislike it in any way. I think it's very pretty for a bookshelf. I think it is an appropriate book trophy. I like the symbolism. I'm kind of wondering where the skull comes into play, but maybe that's to come. I liked it. Do we rate the book covers? I forget.
Mari:Yeah, just like how well you thought it related to the story.
Ashley:I mean relation is relative. I think it's a three, I really like the cover.
Mari:I love skulls, especially like give me a skull and flowers and make it pink and then make the whole thing look like embroidery, like it was embroidered on, beautiful, like I think it's a. It's beautiful. Let me backtrack. I'm sorry I didn't say the cover is done by Elizabeth Turner Stokes. She also worked on the Fourth Wing covers.
Ashley:A plus Elizabeth. Yeah, abigail Owen singular, I'm sorry is Red Tower right? So she's part of she's the same. The same publisher is Fourth Wing. Yeah, so Red Tower is really doing its thing.
Mari:Yeah, so the the skull thing worked for me in terms of working with the story because, like traditionally and like ghost stories and horror and stuff, a wraith is like a ghost or a spirit that you see before or after someone dies, you know, and he's a shadow wraith, he's known as a shadow wraith, so you have that connection to death and, like skulls are often symbolic of death. So that worked the crown, because obviously you have a whole drama of royalty, worked the crown because obviously you have a whole drama of royalty. The one thing I would say about the flowers is to me, when she was the Baron was talking about making the glass flowers in the desert, I was thinking like flowers made out of, out of glass, not colored glass, but like you know, see-through kind of glass, like maybe a blue tone, like I think it would have been cool if it were more like they look like clear or blue tone, like glass flowers. I think it would have been cool if it were more like they look like clear or blue tone, like glass flowers. I think that would have been really good.
Mari:But other than that, like I, I like it. I think it works fine, not not super great, because in my head, and I think it's just because the way the book started in the desert, in my head this is like a desert story. It really isn't, but I mean, when you look back at the whole story, it's really not that much of it takes place in the desert, but the main character is from like a desert area and so I think I wanted it to have more desert vibes if it's going to connect with the story. So for me it's a three, three paintbrushes Kelly.
Kelly:I've got to go with a four on this one, and the reason for that pretty much is that when I look at the cover and think about the story, you have the flowers and you have two different color flowers that I thought were trying to represent the two sisters.
Mari:Oh, interesting, jonathan, I think it's like.
Jonathan:So I really enjoy the art. I don't think that the cover relates to the story very well. The crown I get it. The flowers have some sort of connection, but the flowers in the story are glass, not thread, so I didn't think it did a fantastic job of bringing the story together on the cover. But overall I really enjoy the art of this. Would I buy this book based on the cover art without knowing the background? Yeah, but if I'm scoring it based on how well it relates to the story, I'm going to give it a two.
Mari:Okay, all right, I think that's everybody right, yeah, I think so. Then last question is is it a kissing book? Is it romantic? What do we think?
Ashley:ashley's going first. I don't. I believe that the book could have existed without the romance, and I'm sure it evolves and there is. I think there's romance in the book, but do I think that the plot is dependent on the romance? No, so for. So for me it's a no.
Mari:Yeah, I agree, that was my thing that I came up with as well is no, I think the story could have happened basically the same without the romance. Once again, this is just based off of the first book. Things may evolve differently, but I think that Shadowraith kidnapped her because he had to. That had nothing to do with romance. I think that if, or you know, once she got to the part where she talked to the people and realized their plight, she was willing to help them. That had nothing to do with, I think, romance. I think that was about her being a caring person and wanting to do better in the world. I don't think that had anything to do with romance. Yeah, so I think like the main plot points would have happened whether or not there was romance. So I'm gonna say no, not a kissing book, jonathan yeah.
Jonathan:So I think, like like a like a pancake, I'm gonna flip on this one. I think that, yeah, I think it is a kissing book. The and I think it may not have started out as a kissing book, but the evolution of the story and then what's implied as far as like how I, how it leaves you, feeling that this story will evolve over the next two books, makes me think that there's no conclusion to the story or it can't move beyond the passion, the love that these two have, the romance, and I think some of that ties into now there's a connection because of the shadows in her kind of stitching her together. I think that's yeah, this has all become a necessity for this. I don't think the story could advance without that love. So I'm going to say yep, it's a kissing book.
Mari:Kelly.
Kelly:So I'm going to say this book no. I mean, I agree with both Mari and Ash. I think the main plot was going to happen regardless. I think that the romance element between the two of them didn't really play into it until the very end, and by then everything had been done in this book. Now, the next book is a completely different story.
Mari:Okay, definitely planning on reading it.
Jonathan:I'm looking forward to reading that next one.
Kelly:Yeah, absolutely I mean I will say it definitely changes the direction some of the plot goes, and I think it definitely does a lot more back-end world building and getting more into answering a lot of the questions that were raised in this book, like why is Adelon doing this, what's in it, what's going on, what's the real deal behind the twin sisters, every other generation? All of that stuff starts to get answered, so it makes it much more satisfying. And then I think there's a lot better character development and there's a lot more friction between the characters and there's more of the romantic element that's explored Okay.
Jonathan:Nice, I'm excited to get down on that.
Mari:Yeah, absolutely All right. So moving on to our rapid fire question for this episode Robin Hood, prince of Thieves. Is it romantic? Is it a kissing book? What do we say?
Kelly:So I'm sure we'd get hate mail for this, but in my opinion robin hood prince of thieves is one of the worst robin hood movies. I don't think it's romantic at all, I think it's.
Jonathan:It's just bad the only saving grace of that entire movie.
Kelly:The only thing that saved that movie whatsoever is alan rickman and morgan freeman and christian and morgan freeman but kevin costner was terrible is Alan Rickman and Morgan.
Jonathan:Freeman and Christian Slater and Morgan Freeman, but Kevin.
Kelly:Costner was terrible. Kevin Costner was terrible. And I have a huge problem and this is like my big, huge pet peeve about this movie and where it happens in a lot of other movies is. So, you remember, Robin Hood comes back to England, right, and he goes to look for his childhood friend, Marion right, and this person that's trying to get him to leave right. And he goes to look for his childhood friend, Marion right, and this person that's trying to get him to leave right, this masked swordsman is like just beating the crap out of him, right. He's like just working Robin Hood over left and right like better swordsman than he is essentially. And it's Marion right. So she's obviously a very capable and skilled swords person, right? But then at the end of the movie, what happens? She stands in the corner screaming while the sheriff and Robin Hood fight. What happened? How did she go from being a bad a** with a sword to the damsel in distress that can't do anything but stand in this corner helpless? I hate that.
Jonathan:What's your podium of Robin Hood movies Like where do they rank?
Kelly:Like it's a very close tie between the classic Errol Flynn and the Disney animated movie as being the best Robin Hood movie. And then right below that is Robin Hood Men in Tights Ooh.
Mari:I think I 100% agree with that ranking.
Jonathan:Mari, what do you think? Is it a kissing movie? I don't think it is, yeah, a kissing movie, right yeah?
Mari:From what I, it's been a while since I watched the movie, but I watched it several times. I watched it at the movie theater. From what I remember of it, I think everything would have happened, I think, regardless of the romance. I don't think it's necessarily a kissing book. So I would say there's romance in it, but I don't think it's like if you took the romance out would the plot fall apart. I don't think so. So I would say it is not a kissing book.
Jonathan:This is an interesting, it's a toss-up for me. I could go either way, right. On one hand I could do something really out of character and just agree what fun is in that, right? So yeah, let's just let. I'll stick to my script. I think I'm gonna go with yeah, it's a book, but here's why I think that there's an. The motivator is made marion, that connection between robin of luxley and made Marion and how, how they, how, that needs to shake out. I think Kelly's right, though the like the I think it was Kelly who said it about Alan Rickman, because the only line, if you were like hey, say a line from that movie, it's Alan, it's Alan Rickman's. Like it's dull, you twit, it'll hurt more. Yep, like that's. Like you know, like cool.
Mari:Classic.
Jonathan:As a kid, I don't think my brothers and I could get into an argument that involved the spoon without that line popping out of our mouths. In terms of the, if I do have to disagree about the podium, I don't. I'm not. I don't like the. I didn't like the animated version super well, it would be a tie between Prince of Thieves and Men in Tights.
Ashley:You guys aren't going to like me for this one. I think it's a kissing book. Okay, I think my age is speaking here. I was very young when Prince of Thieves came out. I was very Disney Robin Hood based. I think Disney Robin Hood probably ranks number one for me. There's a trend on TikTok right now that it goes something like just hear me out, who's your just one, hear me out. And a lot of people will chime in and say it's the Fox Robin Hood. There's something about the Fox Robin Hood that's like attractive, but obviously it's animated, right so, but it's like so you got to hear me out. So, yeah, I think the nostalgia is kicking in for me because I'm younger and I would have been very, very little watching these movies for the first half a dozen times, and I think robin hood will always associate with love and friendship and you know, love conquers all do we have to see a counselor if we're talking about, like eagle, eagle, broads and fox dudes like I don't think so.
Ashley:I think this is the appropriate setting for both of those conversations. This is a safe space. Welcome to Romanticy boy.
Kelly:I'm sure there is a lot of people, male and female, who discovered something about themselves when they watched the animated Robin Hood film.
Mari:I'm just saying safe space, speaking as someone who this year well, really last year has gotten into like monster romance and who has been waxing poetic about Tiffany Roberts' Spider-Mate books. So I got no legs to stand on, yeah.
Ashley:You have all the legs, I have all eight legs.
Jonathan:I don't know if I've ever seen the animated version of Robin Hood all the way through.
Mari:It's fun. It's a good one. Yeah, it's good.
Kelly:Despite the problems with the Robin Hood animated movie. You know it was a shoddy production. They rushed it, they reused a lot of animation from other movies, stuff like that, but despite it all it was actually a very I thought it was a very good film.
Mari:It's a classic. Okay, all right. So if you would like to contribute a subject for our next rapid fire question, chat to us on Instagram or Facebook with suggestions. We're looking forward to having a fun time delving into some stories out there with you and hope you enjoy coming along for the ride. The next book we'll be doing for the next episode is going to be Three Dark Crowns by Kendare Blake B-L-A-K-E, so pick it up and join along with us. Thanks for listening to Of Swords and Soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate and review us on your podcast app of choice and follow us on Instagram at Of Swords. And follow us on instagram at of swords and soulmates, or join our facebook page of swords and soulmates if you'd like to read along with us as we prep for each episode. As we prep ahead, follow us on goodreads at of swords and soulmates. We hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode.
Jonathan:Bye-bye awesome, saw some. See you guys later.
